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[JobLeonard]

EDIT: Dang, a lot of new comments since I started writing a reply to the one I replied to . Eh, I still stand by my argument about realism not being an argument.

That very disappointing that people don't like the change. I've spent countless hours trying to redo things...

I figured you'd feel like this. It's obvious the changes didn't came from nothing; you probably put a lot of work into it. Look, I'm interested in this project regardless.

I was not saying the new look is worse, but what bothers me is that it changes a very recognisable aspect of the look with poorly explained motivations. I mean, doing "what feels better" in terms of graphics is fine (and doing what feels bad certainly won't work in the long run), but please reflect on why it feels better.

Do I change it back because people don't like it? Or keep it because I believe it's right and would make everything easier?

Ask yourself why do you believe it's right. And dig a bit deeper than this:

The outlines were not working, and there were some serious design flaws. The background was too vague, and didn't feel like part of the world. It was either give the background outlines, or take out outlines all together. I understand that it doesn't pop so much, despite me addressing that and increasing contrast and saturation to the original palette.

By what "metric" do you judge these things? I never saw any of the issues you mentioned. And when I use quotes around "metric" I'm implying that it's subjective, which doesn't mean everything is just opinion and we can't have a discussion about it; what that means is that these judgements come from interpretive frames, and that you should try to be aware of the ones you have.

The main reason of choice was the player. They were unrealistic, and too chunky with the outlines. I played a bit and realised not only is it easier to animate without outlines, but it looks better.

Ok, this I do have trouble with. Do whatever you want with the artwork but for goodness sake DON'T EVER USE THE REALISM ARGUMENT! THERE IS NOTHING INHERENTLY VALUABLE ABOUT SO-CALLED "REALISM". And that's ignoring that there's nothing more or less realistic about the change.

The point of art is not to depict something by direct representation. That's the flawed (usually subconscious) thinking that leads to the "realism is better" mistake. In full, it kinda goes like this:

• art is trying to visually represent something
• the medium should get out of the way of what is being shown; you shouldn't see the paint, just what is being depicted
• hence realism is better, because it reflects the reality that is being represented

The thing is, that first premise is completely untrue. Alphonse Mucha would not be better (or more "realistic") without strong outlines. Picasso's Guernica would be worse if it was photorealistic. Van Gogh's works would be worse if they were photorealistic.

And if that first premise does not hold, neither do the other two following conclusions.

It's not clear to me why you think one thing is better than the other, only that you think it does; there's nothing more or less realistic about the new look and even if it was there's nothing inherently more valuable about it.

I still think it looks good, it does lose what was a distinctive look. I don't understand your technical reasons tbf but if you say it makes things more easy to cope with that's as good an argument as any.

(but seriously: no "it's more realistic" arguments please)

[Christian]

Guys, I know a lot of us had a strong affinity for the original art, but I think it's a unfair to barrage the thread with posts criticizing the new artstyle. I'm know I'm guilty of this, and especially over in the Rain World devlog. Joar will post something and people would post pages of criticism, even going as far as to make altered pics of how they felt something should look. It can be disheartening for a developer

As much as I liked the original art style, the last thing I'd want to do, and I'm sure many here feel the same, is discourage ENDESGA from keeping a devlog, posting updates, sharing his progress.

His vision comes first. And as he said, the change was also to make programming and crafting the game easier in the long term. That's much more important. Consider the game Broforce; the devs had to change their art style so they could focus on the gameplay and complete the game in a reasonable timeframe.

I still wish the original art style could be kept, but I'm more excited to see the game grow and evolve.

[FK in the Coffee]

Make the game you want to make.

[ENDESGA]

...

I know realism is a silly excuse, but it's the only way to describe and explain my intentions.
Okay, put it like this, I want it to be comparable to a movie. But in pixels.

One thought I had was to LATER add a feature that uses a shader to add outlines. But right now, please can everyone stop trying to defend the previous art style.
It's a little childish to say this but, this game is mine. I have spent too long on this, and CANNOT go back to something that doesn't work.

Make the game you want to make.

Guys, I know a lot of us had a strong affinity for the original art, but I think it's a unfair to barrage the thread with posts criticizing the new artstyle. I'm know I'm guilty of this, and especially over in the Rain World devlog. Joar will post something and people would post pages of criticism, even going as far as to make altered pics of how they felt something should look. It can be disheartening for a developer

As much as I liked the original art style, the last thing I'd want to do, and I'm sure many here feel the same, is discourage ENDESGA from keeping a devlog, posting updates, sharing his progress.

That last bit. I could very easily delete everything. I could not say anything. I could just get rid of everything, but I'm choosing to show you guys the progress. Please accept NIKRA for what it is. When the Kickstarter is open (yes there is a delay), and when you guys will watch the video, you will hopefully love it for what it is.
The final product is important, and it's important to finish it in the current decade. I want to finish NIKRA as soon as I can.

What happened to all the compliments?

[JobLeonard]

 

You can't tell them what to like, just like they can't tell you what to do.

Look, while you are sharing the process with us and while that is brave, and appreciated... that does bring with itself the responsibility to be able to deal with criticism.

The first announcement didn't have any of the explanations you gave later; it just looked like an arbitrary change for the less-distinct.

What happened to all the compliments

Oh come on. Unless everyone decided to edit out every compliment from the pages before here, those compliments are all still there so don't whine about them. Not everything you do will be liked by everyone and if you can't handle the occasional pushback the creative business isn't for you.

And if some people respond in hysterical terms, be that praise or hatred, that's their problem.

[ENDESGA]

...
Not everything you do will be liked by everyone and if you can't handle the occasional pushback the creative business isn't for you.

I understand, just wasn't expecting this many people to complain. Thought I was doing something right, that's all man
I've taken in all the constructive criticism and I'll continue development on the game and it's style. I don't disagree with anything, and I'm not getting frustrated and pulling a Phil Fish; just was hoping for a bit more support

[JWK5]

You have that support, people are here and you have a fan base. The question is, are they just here solely to cater to your self esteem? You will make the most out of your fan base if you pull them into the creative process rather than pushing them to its fringes and plugging your ears when they voice concerns or make suggestions you don't like. Remember, art is a shared experience.

Anyways, I do like the detail of the new style but the old style was definitely more readable and vibrant. There is a pretty easily achieved middle ground (within reason), however. Up the contrast and saturation on your assets. This is a quick and dirty tweak but hopefully you get the idea:



Darken your shadows and add saturate things a bit more and you'll get more pop. Contrast is the key.

[ENDESGA]

Stream has finished for now.

[DireLogomachist]

I wanted to pop in here and say that while the first aesthetic was great, I'm looking forward to what this new change will bring.  There are too many projects on here that have died and will never return that I'm not going to fight this.  As said previously, make the game YOU want to make.  Few if any good games get made otherwise.

Keep it up!

[Yxven]

I like the new style of art.

I especially like the new hero.

[ENDESGA]

Thanks guys for the kind words Progress is being made!

[thekill473]

For me I find it hard to tell the foreground and background apart, I keep having to squint. The foreground colours look pretty spot on. Maybe just playing around more with the background colours could add a lot more.

[Zizka]

Keep in mind that people complain because... they care about the game! You have a very active fanbase and that's something very precious. They provide criticism which not only brings exposure to your game but give you suggestions to make things differentely.

I would trade every compliment about my game for criticism. It's nice to be told we're good, it's even more useful to be told how we could be better.

Guys, I know a lot of us had a strong affinity for the original art, but I think it's a unfair to barrage the thread with posts criticizing the new artstyle. I'm know I'm guilty of this, and especially over in the Rain World devlog. Joar will post something and people would post pages of criticism, even going as far as to make altered pics of how they felt something should look. It can be disheartening for a developer

As much as I liked the original art style, the last thing I'd want to do, and I'm sure many here feel the same, is discourage ENDESGA from keeping a devlog, posting updates, sharing his progress.

I disagree with this opinion totally, completely and entirely. If a dev loses his motivation after getting some critcism, he didn't really care about his game in the first place. Have we reached a point where only compliments will be welcomed and threaten non-compliment criticism with a "well if you don't like it, I'm going to leave and won't tell you anymore about the game!" ? It'd be a pretty boring devlog if reactions were nothing but a long list of praises. If praises is what's expected, then add "-compliments only" in the title of the topic. I'm exaggerating of course and I'm sure you wouldn't like that. But honestly that statement:

That last bit. I could very easily delete everything. I could not say anything. I could just get rid of everything, but I'm choosing to show you guys the progress. Please accept NIKRA for what it is.

Was a bit disconcerting... It comes across as a threat and it's not fun.


I personally like both artstyles even though I prefered the first one (they both look great though!). I'll keep an eye out for this game, it's interesting!

[ENDESGA]

...

I apologise for coming off wrong, as I mentioned I just wasn't expecting this many people to dislike it. So I was a bit shocked, that's all No threats intended, was mostly confusion.

ANYWAY...

Progress on NIKRA is going well guys! I did a few Streams over the past couple of days, and got a lot done for Planet Maldis. Once that's finished, I'm gonna work on the foundations of the story starting with key locations.

Proper update soon!

-Seth

[Xonatron]

You have me at this animation:



It's funny how that's all it takes to capture someone's attention, not that it is easy to do. But, now, I'm interested for sure.

[chegr]

I know how it's hard to maintain and defend ideas (even though my audience is only couple of people and I have no commentators in my thread). Even after hours of discusion followers expect your project to match their own image of your game they built based on sequence of interwoven facts you provide and their own expirience.
We need to keep ballance of open ears and closed mind.

When product is finished, all variations it went through become 'Behind the scenes' and almost never affect the result. Almost.
When we see plot holes in movie we suspect something was cut or abandoned.
When there is image which doesn't fit overall style, we suspect it has been added at the eleventh hour.
When you play a game and knock against dangling feature, we can assume there was another way to play.

I think you can change whatever you want.

And now I'm going to rant about what I don't like

Style requires consistency. Dealing with pixelart, deal with pixels.
I hate when pixelart uses diffrent resolutions.
I hate when visible pixels blur, smudge and reinterpolate.
I hate when you can see pixel being rotated (it's like you original sword and all tools in Moonman).

There's so few examples when it works. Recent versions of Binding of Isaac, being well-crafted, scale and rotate sprites of projectiles and tween monsters' states. First feels as hack which fits OK with gameplay, second came from flash-version and is much worse. Fake pixelart is so cheap.

Speaking of this I very much like black outline being gone, because it looked very bad while distorted.
Now your art (at least at screens) seem to be fair and crisp. I like it.

[ENDESGA]

DEVLOG UPDATE
SLIGHT COMPROMISATIONS

As a lot of you may know, the outlines in NIKRA have been taken out. I have to agree with some people and say that yeah, they did give the game a unique feel. But in case you didn't get to read my messages, I believe doing this allows the game too look more "painted", and blends the foreground to the distance background. And plus, taking out outlines means I can put in more details without compromising space. NIKRA has gone through many design changes, and this is the first one where I don't feel limited by what I can draw. The palette is structured in such a way that makes drawing materials super simple; in turn simplifying the process of creation!

But in the end, I know some of you will always prefer the older art and that's totally cool

So I've compromised a bit, and tweaked some colours. I increased the:

• Saturation
• Brightness
• Hue Range
• Vibrancy
• Contrast

The change is only slight, but along with a more faded background, and defined darker colours, the tiles in the galaxy of Nikra stand out just a little bit more.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a crazy huge change, but I thought it might make things look ever so slightly cleaner!

Until next time,
-Seth

Follow Me on Twitter for NIKRA updates

[aamatniekss]

The new style looks really good! While I admit there was a certain uniqueness to the previous style, I think it mostly came from the super cool animations and effects and not really from outlines, so while those effects and animations stay, I think it will look even better!

[Fenrir]

I really love this new style! Keep it up!

[JobLeonard]

Great readability improvement!

The background being more faded can also make sense from an intuitive point of view, if the air is hazy for whatever reason (mist, pollution, dust). You could even try to vary this per world so that the "type" of foreground/background contrast fits with the environment, making them more distinct.