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TIGSource ForumsCommunityTownhallForum IssuesArchived subforums (read only)TutorialsApproaching a MMO
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Author Topic: Approaching a MMO  (Read 13200 times)
Ajene
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« on: February 05, 2009, 05:16:43 PM »

This tut isn't here cause I don't think any indie should work on MMO's.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 04:08:37 AM by Ajene » Logged
ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 05:35:02 PM »

This... doesn't actually explain how to make a MMO game.
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Ajene
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 05:39:02 PM »

thats why is says "approaching a MMO" if it were about making one it would say "making a mmo" this is mainly about if you plan to make one. so before you approach it, you should think of all this plus alot more.
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Ivan
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009, 05:48:41 PM »

I tried to make an MMO once. It took me months and I got pretty far. I had a full server running where you could log in and design your character and run around with other people. Then I thought about what lay ahead and even if after years of work, I managed to complete it, I realized that it would be years more of maintaining and updating it. In short, here's my bit of advice: Don't make MMOs.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009, 05:53:24 PM »

But aren't tutorials meant to... explain things? Like, tell people how to do things? This doesn't really explain much, it's more of a warning. And however great and well-justified a warning is, is it really a tutorial?

In any case, I never understood the appeal of MMO games. I've tried a few but didn't really feel that any are very good. I can get the social aspect of them and they're a great place to make friends, but they usually aren't (and almost never are) very good as games.
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 06:00:21 PM »

I would disagree with that. I think that WoW is actually a very good game, even from a pure gameplay standpoint. There is a lot of strategy involved in it, despite the whole "click on something and watch as you kick it repeatedly" thing. There are many problems with WoW that are common to MMOs in general, which is its own can of worms, but I think it's unfair to say that all MMOs are bad games, though I would agree that most MMOs are bad games.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 06:05:01 PM »

I found WoW to basically be like that edmund flash game where you click the light switch over and over with the rewards coming slower and slower as the game went on (I think he even intended it as a parody of that type of gameplay). I didn't get very far in the game though, I played a dwarven female hunter named Lucca (after the character in Final Fantasy 4) and only made it to around level 30, but that took ages and I found it incredibly boring. Dofus is a much more fun MMORPG, that one lasted me until around level 100 (out of 200 -- yes, 200 levels).
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Ajene
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2009, 03:53:47 PM »

But aren't tutorials meant to... explain things? Like, tell people how to do things? This doesn't really explain much, it's more of a warning. And however great and well-justified a warning is, is it really a tutorial?

In any case, I never understood the appeal of MMO games. I've tried a few but didn't really feel that any are very good. I can get the social aspect of them and they're a great place to make friends, but they usually aren't (and almost never are) very good as games.
Well this does explain things, it also gives advice and info on doing things. A tut is really anything that can help you out to do what you want to do. A well explained piece of advice is basically what it is.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2009, 03:55:07 PM »

I guess. Maybe I should make a tutorial against making retro-themed games, since that seems to be a bigger problem around here than making MMO games. Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 09:55:26 PM »

I don't think the problem with WoW is the basic, micro-level gameplay (the combat actually is fun in small doses I found).

The problem is how all these micro player experiences are pieced together to form a macro treadmill of withheld content WTF
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009, 09:59:03 PM »

I also didn't like the quest structure.

Area one: hey, I need wolves killed! Kill me 12 wolves.

Area two: hey, I need pigs killed! Kill me 12 pigs.

Most of the quests in the game were like that. Kill x enemies, or kill enemies and find me x resources, or bring this message to this person. Couldn't they have been more creative for the quests in a game with like 10 million subscribers each paying 15$ a month (leading to like a HUNDRED FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH for blizzard).\

EDIT: correction, 11 million subscribers now.
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2009, 10:51:02 PM »

A few of the quests really distinguish themselves, but when you consider the amount more work that goes into a really detailed quest vs a fetch/kill (I'd guesstimate maybe 20 times as much) it's really not surprising that that's the majority. Usually you can do the grindy ones on your way to and from the more interesting ones. They also tend to all get a lot more interesting if you do them when they're orange; green quests are almost always boring just because they're so easy.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2009, 11:04:46 PM »

Still, with all the money the game earns they could afford some better writers / quest designers quite easily. They could probably afford full time salary for one writer per quest, actually, even though the game has like thousands of quests.
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Ajene
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2009, 11:25:37 PM »

Wow needed better quests, i only go to play the private servers cause my computer couldnt handle the actual server, i took two steps lags 15mins, I actually made a mistake and went into ironforge, what was the biggest mistake cause my computer froze, then crashed.
It kinda sucked playing the game to be honest, grinding was no fun, it was like every mmo i get tired of constantly lvling just to reach the fun, which everyone said that the best fun was PVP.
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Mir@k
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2009, 01:29:58 AM »

I guess. Maybe I should make a tutorial against making retro-themed games, since that seems to be a bigger problem around here than making MMO games. Smiley
What is wrong with retro? Tongue
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William Broom
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2009, 02:29:37 AM »

I guess. Maybe I should make a tutorial against making retro-themed games, since that seems to be a bigger problem around here than making MMO games. Smiley
What is wrong with retro? Tongue
Don't ask questions like that unless you're prepared to accept the responsibility of a total and calamitous thread derail.
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Chris Whitman
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2009, 11:33:35 AM »

In my opinion, nothing is wrong with retro something; everything is wrong with retro everything.

Ajene, I don't think any of your tutorials seem very much like tutorials. Have you worked on an actual (finished) MMO? You spend most of the post talking about graphics, which don't relate to MMOs specifically beyond how they relate to any game. You mention that the server for a 3D MMO must be a faster machine, but all the rendering is done and the geometry is stored on the client side for all MMOs that I'm aware of, so I mean... I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there would really be very little difference server-side between a 2D or 3D MMO besides how regions are organized and the storing of triples instead of doubles for positions. From reading interviews with Blizzard staff, I gather the loads are so heavy on WOW because of the number of players and size of the world, which necessitates offloading separate regions on other machines, etc. I don't think it relates specifically to the geometric aspect of it.

Nothing personal, but this just doesn't seem to be very informed or informative.
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2009, 11:51:01 AM »

If your happy with how your mmo turned out, that's good. if you are getting a couple playing and you only considered this a hobby project for you and 3 friends that great as well. If you continue to keep this crappy game, and continue to work on it till it goes from crappy to decent, to great and so on that's AWESOME! But this only goes if you coded it by your self, and didn't use some point and click engine.
Whats wrong with a point and click engine :/

It's not like it doesn't still take effort.
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Ivan
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2009, 12:54:14 PM »

kids, don't make MMOs, you'll never finish them
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Ajene
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« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2009, 02:00:47 PM »

In my opinion, nothing is wrong with retro something; everything is wrong with retro everything.

Ajene, I don't think any of your tutorials seem very much like tutorials. Have you worked on an actual (finished) MMO? You spend most of the post talking about graphics, which don't relate to MMOs specifically beyond how they relate to any game. You mention that the server for a 3D MMO must be a faster machine, but all the rendering is done and the geometry is stored on the client side for all MMOs that I'm aware of, so I mean... I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there would really be very little difference server-side between a 2D or 3D MMO besides how regions are organized and the storing of triples instead of doubles for positions. From reading interviews with Blizzard staff, I gather the loads are so heavy on WOW because of the number of players and size of the world, which necessitates offloading separate regions on other machines, etc. I don't think it relates specifically to the geometric aspect of it.

Nothing personal, but this just doesn't seem to be very informed or informative.

I've made small 2D MMO's 1 point and click and another we coded ourselves (but also was a point and click lol) The mmo being on a strong fast computer means, more people can be on it without overloading it. the client should also be on a strong computer so it can run smother and get and send information at a steady pace.

graphics play a role cause it determines how much memory is used, and how fast things will load. thats why many game devs, try to get Modelers to use low polys.
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