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[___]

Yeah! That's the one. I found it on some third party site, so I've never been able to play it since the first time. Thanks, it's a super cool game and now I know what to look for. :D

Uhh.  I made that game.  For a competition on these very forums.  It won.  :B

[Renton]

letsap the clueless user.

[letsap]

This is what I get for not lurking.

Oh, the permanent death idea I can see working in a couple contexts, without dumbing down the gameplay. For something like an online flash game or a competitive game, let you play through a tutorial or practice thing as many times as you need then let you try the real thing once to let you see how good you really are. I dunno, that's just how I see it working.

[GP Lackey]

But in the newest Prince of Persia it is literally impossible to die. If you fall off a ledge you get carried back to the nearest solid ground you stood on. If you fail a fight, you get rescued and the only penalty is the enemy's hp going up a little bit.

So functionally isn't that the same as dying and reloading at a checkpoint but without taking you out of the game?  That seems like a pretty sensible solution actually, having an in-game reason for the try-again gameplay to function like it does.

Chris:
Well it is a bit different in that one means you gain more Adam now and the other means you have to wait but you get a bonus.  I agree there is not much difference.

The Sands of Time thing is funny.  But probably dying and rewinding time so much addle your sense of continuity anyway.  Though I'm not sure why he'd be recounting a blow-by-blow version of his journey anyway, it would take forever.  Lets not dwell on it.

Can anyone think of some examples of games where dying actually takes place in the same continuity?  Like Dwarf Fortress adventure mode, or rogue-likes with graveyards, or Cannon Fodder (borderline case)?

[Chris Whitman]

Well it is a bit different in that one means you gain more Adam now and the other means you have to wait but you get a bonus.  I agree there is not much difference.

Yeah, he actually had a graph, believe it or not, which measured the difference including Adam awarded and bonus powerups. They diverge a bit at the beginning, but by the end they are basically identical.

The Sands of Time thing is funny.  But probably dying and rewinding time so much addle your sense of continuity anyway.  Though I'm not sure why he'd be recounting a blow-by-blow version of his journey anyway, it would take forever.  Lets not dwell on it.

Honestly, I had not analysed it to this depth. It's silly, but it seems to fit all right in the game and it's good for a bit of a laugh.

Can anyone think of some examples of games where dying actually takes place in the same continuity?  Like Dwarf Fortress adventure mode, or rogue-likes with graveyards, or Cannon Fodder (borderline case)?

This is a way cool way to handle death, I think. If games are going to be about 'dying,' I'd rather see more stuff like this.

[Kneecaps]

I've been thinking about what it'd be like to have a game in which death was permanent. Not just within one playthrough, mind you, but within the program as a whole. You die, you can't play the game again, ever.

Doubtful it could work. The game would have to be almost dumbly easy, with stuff like the game auto-pausing if it doesn't receive input for a few seconds, but I imagine the feeling that death wasn't just meaningful, but truly permanent, like in real life, would create a kind of feeling out of the player you don't see in any game, not even roguelikes.

Would probably never work in a commercial sense, but as an experimental free game, it'd be interesting to try.

I've thought about something similar, except instead of death causing the game to become unplayable, a specific keypress or in-game action would do so, like the Ren and Stimpy History Eraser Button.  That keypress or action would not be necessary at any point within the game, but throughout the game, you would be constantly reminded of its existence.  So the player's curiosity would be their demise.

I'm not sure if this has been said yet or not, but the only thing that I like when it comes to death in games is that the rules of death universally applies to everything in the game.  It's fine if I can respawn, as long as the enemies respawn at the same time, too.  This also applies to characters in the story.  I hate it when I can die as many times as I want with little to no penalty, but then one of the characters in the game suddenly dies "for real" in a cutscene.

[Soulliard]

Has anyone mentioned Jesse Benbrux's Deaths, yet? I wasn't enthralled by the gameplay, but the fact that the corpses of the last fifty players were actually an interactive gameplay element was a great idea.

[Synnah]

I hate it when I can die as many times as I want with little to no penalty, but then one of the characters in the game suddenly dies "for real" in a cutscene.

I always wondered why Cloud didn't just use a Phoenix Down on Aeris. A classic example of the dissonance between the gameplay and the story.

[___]

I hate it when I can die as many times as I want with little to no penalty, but then one of the characters in the game suddenly dies "for real" in a cutscene.

I always wondered why Cloud didn't just use a Phoenix Down on Aeris. A classic example of the dissonance between the gameplay and the story.

Yeah, I hate that shit.  Aeris's death was supposed to be all like "ohh no we lost a sweet character, now I'm all emotional :`((" But since the standard RPG gameplay suggests that death is a joke unless all 3 of your party members die, it's not very significant.

[Fuzz]

This is what I get for not lurking.

I lurked for a year before joining.:D

Has anyone mentioned Jesse Venbrux's Deaths, yet? I wasn't enthralled by the gameplay, but the fact that the corpses of the last fifty players were actually an interactive gameplay element was a great idea.

That was rather interesting, but the game he made that I really found interesting was You Made It. I haven't played the sequel yet, but I really liked how it never refreshes. Actually, I really like the death system in The Last Jedi by Jazzuo. It's extremely difficult, but it uses a combination of saves and lives. The saves are far apart, but there are lives between the saves and auto-save points that you go back to until you run out of lives. This has probably been done before, but The Last Jedi is the only game I can currently think of that has done it.

[William Broom]

Yeah, I hate that shit.  Aeris's death was supposed to be all like "ohh no we lost a sweet character, now I'm all emotional :`((" But since the standard RPG gameplay suggests that death is a joke unless all 3 of your party members die, it's not very significant.

The easy way to solve this would have been to kill off 3 members of your party all at once. Now that would have really been a surprise.

[Hempuli‽]

Yeah, I hate that shit.  Aeris's death was supposed to be all like "ohh no we lost a sweet character, now I'm all emotional :`((" But since the standard RPG gameplay suggests that death is a joke unless all 3 of your party members die, it's not very significant.

The easy way to solve this would have been to kill off 3 members of your party all at once. Now that would have really been a surprise.

Hehe, yeah, that would've been quite a shock I guess.
Jesse's games have all pretty cool ways of handling death.

I've been thinking too about that 'die once, can't play the game anymore' concept, but if that concept was used, the game couldn't be Spelunky, it would have to be a bit more forgiving.

One thing I found cool when playing some less forgiving games, especially some old Metroidvanias, was that there were cases where you had to be brave and get through a very hard place in order to get to it place you had to go. There aren't many examples of this, but it has it's very own feeling when you have to mostly just avoid everything, and after this sort of a hell, you get your reward as new plot twists, or maybe a new item, or maybe just getting to an easier place.

[letsap]

Oh man, I've always liked having to risk your life in games for payout. A no varia suit run in Super Metroid is all kinds of fun around Norfair. When you run through an area and finally reach the room with 4 health left, it's so rewarding.

[Hempuli‽]

Oh man, I've always liked having to risk your life in games for payout. A no varia suit run in Super Metroid is all kinds of fun around Norfair. When you run through an area and finally reach the room with 4 health left, it's so rewarding.

Yes, I had just the same (Metroid and especially Norfair) in my head when I posted that.
Sadly, Super Metroid doesn't require that in any point. :<

[Cheater‽]

Yeah, I hate that shit.  Aeris's death was supposed to be all like "ohh no we lost a sweet character, now I'm all emotional :`((" But since the standard RPG gameplay suggests that death is a joke unless all 3 of your party members die, it's not very significant.

Aeris was her whole party  .

[Candlejack]

Oh man, I've always liked having to risk your life in games for payout. A no varia suit run in Super Metroid is all kinds of fun around Norfair. When you run through an area and finally reach the room with 4 health left, it's so rewarding.

That reminds me. I was wondering early today what it would be like to have a Metroid game with roque-like elements.

[JasonPickering]

there is an online game not sure what its called, but you fight zombies and when you die you become a zombie, and from then on you can not be killed jsut knocked down. although i guess there is a quest you can go on to return yourself to human form. but its nice to see that when you die you have a consequence. can you imagine in god of war if you had to escape hades everytime you died, actually dibs on that idea, nobody touch it.

[letsap]

Oh man, I've always liked having to risk your life in games for payout. A no varia suit run in Super Metroid is all kinds of fun around Norfair. When you run through an area and finally reach the room with 4 health left, it's so rewarding.

That reminds me. I was wondering early today what it would be like to have a Metroid game with roque-like elements.

Awesome, that's what it would be like.

[Inanimate]

there is an online game not sure what its called, but you fight zombies and when you die you become a zombie, and from then on you can not be killed jsut knocked down. although i guess there is a quest you can go on to return yourself to human form. but its nice to see that when you die you have a consequence. can you imagine in god of war if you had to escape hades everytime you died, actually dibs on that idea, nobody touch it.

Has been done. I remember reading about a game, in Greece, with that exact premise. You fought fallen enemies, the ones you killed. Pretty cool. Forgot the name of it though...

[zeid]

Interesting discussion ready for my epic and far to long winded input? It seems alot of you are mentioning giving a negative feedback examples of punishment for death (as in if the player makes a mistake they get punished; they have to repeat an area, they lose game rank).  I always thought it would be interesting to do the exact opposite as a form of punishment, give the player positive feedback in a sense.  By making a mistake the game path shifts to an easier difficulty, you gain the benefit of being able to continue on without any worry but the more difficult path becomes locked away from you.  So yes you can continue playing and the game supports it but you lose some sense of accomplishment.  This loss of accomplishment can be reinforced with alternative endings (A common punishment for dying multiple times in games).

An on the spot made up example concept game to shed some insight into what I am talking about:
Super Pocket King Panty Fish Deluxe (SPKPFD), is a platformer where you play SPKPFD a fish trying to help the funtastic Blue Monkey Monk King find some of his lost pearls.  The game plays like a normal platformer, however being 'killed' doesn't actually result in you dying in fact all it does is stun you and nock you down to a lower path (literally a lower but easier level).  Once traveling a lower path it is possible to get higher by doing exceedingly well, the higher you go the bigger an ending you get the lower you go the more likely you will receive an, "Oh that’s all the pearls you got back" from the Blue Monkey Monk King.  If you continuously fail at the lowest level, the floating Cloud Disco Guitar will offer aid in a variety of ways to ensure the game is almost passable for even the most incapable and unimaginable dimwitted of players.

I think this would be an interesting mechanic in that it allows both highly competitive and casual players to recieve an appropriate level of challenge from the game to keep them interested.  The main problem is that this sort of design is in affect creating content for multiple games some of which some players will never see.  Furthermore it is never nice to close off content to people who play the game well, as it is in a sense a punishment.  What are peoples thoughts on this sort of design by the way?  I have seen it done before to different degrees I'm sure though can't think of where.