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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesCloned!
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jeb
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« on: February 11, 2009, 07:13:25 AM »

Harvest has been cloned by the Casual Collective (makers of Desktop TD and Flash Elements TD). I feel kind of upset now, but I guess it'll pass. You find their version of the game here:

http://www.casualcollective.com/games/The_Space_Game
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TeeGee
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 07:23:19 AM »

What an incredibly unique and non-generic name for the game they came up with  Roll Eyes.

And seriously, you shouldn't feel upset about someone cloning your game, you should feel flattered.
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 07:47:25 AM »

Yeah... well... it just feels weird. Like... they're probably gonna earn more money when they put the game on Kongregate, Candystand, Mochi etc, than we have. Although, that's our fault, I guess.

What I'm trying to say is that this is not a tribute game. It's a commercial game. David Scott thought to himself that "this game could be earned money on," not that he wanted to show his appreciation to us.

EDIT: thewreck had a good point on IRC. We should be glad that it's possible to clone the game. It's just not another TD game Smiley
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 08:00:42 AM by jeb » Logged

gambrinous
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 09:39:12 AM »

You make a game with a novel concept. They make an exact copy. What's your legal recourse?
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Valter
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 09:44:58 AM »

Take a lesson from the land of the free, Jeb. Take a lesson, and then sue some asses.

Hell, I know the internet is supposed to be some kind of cesspit of evil, but you could send them an e-mail requesting them to take it down. Or just admit that it's a tribute to your game. Or you could demand Royalties! Don't do nothing, though. Stand up for your intellectual property!
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TeeGee
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 10:44:46 AM »

It's not his intelectual property. You can't own gameplay mechanics, even if you are the one that came up with them. I don't think any of you guys, who make platformers, had ever any problems with Nintendo saying: "Hey! You cloned Mario!!! Take it down!!!".  Roll Eyes

Games are being cloned all the time. In fact, many great games from this very website could pass as clones of some retro genres (shmups, platformers). Of course, in this case it's a pretty shameless 1:1 clone (more like 1:0.1 judging by quality, but meh), but it's nothing too weird.
I would say Jeb can be proud that he invented a mechanic worth cloning.
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2009, 11:18:14 AM »

I'm a massive Harvest fan, but anyone can see that a lot of work went into making this and it's a pretty damn good product. It's really impressive IMO.
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 11:43:38 AM »

It's not his intelectual property. You can't own gameplay mechanics, even if you are the one that came up with them. I don't think any of you guys, who make platformers, had ever any problems with Nintendo saying: "Hey! You cloned Mario!!! Take it down!!!".  Roll Eyes

Games are being cloned all the time. In fact, many great games from this very website could pass as clones of some retro genres (shmups, platformers). Of course, in this case it's a pretty shameless 1:1 clone (more like 1:0.1 judging by quality, but meh), but it's nothing too weird.
I would say Jeb can be proud that he invented a mechanic worth cloning.
Never! I demand Justice!  Angry
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2009, 12:22:17 PM »

It's not his intelectual property. You can't own gameplay mechanics, even if you are the one that came up with them. I don't think any of you guys, who make platformers, had ever any problems with Nintendo saying: "Hey! You cloned Mario!!! Take it down!!!".  Roll Eyes

Games are being cloned all the time. In fact, many great games from this very website could pass as clones of some retro genres (shmups, platformers). Of course, in this case it's a pretty shameless 1:1 clone (more like 1:0.1 judging by quality, but meh), but it's nothing too weird.
I would say Jeb can be proud that he invented a mechanic worth cloning.

The problem with using platforming as an example is that it's a pretty general game mechanic.

If I asked for a platformer where you run and jump, I wouldn't get any good answers; however, if I asked for a platformer where you could hold a button to rewind time, most people would probably answer "Braid" in a heartbeat.

Using the general ideas of a genre is fine; copying the specific ideas of other games is not.

That being said, I also think Jeb should be proud of designing this game mechanic, but IMO he should get some sort of recognition for doing the original concept.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 12:35:51 PM by genericuser » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 01:25:55 PM »

OMG!!!  Hand Money Left Gentleman Hand Thumbs Up Right
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TeeGee
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 01:31:49 PM »

Quote from: genericuser
Using the general ideas of a genre is fine; copying the specific ideas of other games is not.
Don't get me wrong - I too think it's not 'fine' in the common sense, and it definitely lowers my personal respect for the developers. It's not even because of cloning - it's because they didn't even attempt to improve anything.
I'm just saying that it's not like Jeb has any means of taking any action nor he should be upset about the whole thing too much.
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 01:45:08 PM »

ach, that must be annoying indeed Sad

(I haven't played harvest; but if it is very very similar then would probably would have recourse to legal action.  it might be worthwhile to check with a lawyer if you can be bothered.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 01:49:19 PM by stephen lavelle » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 01:52:38 PM »

however, if I asked for a platformer where you could hold a button to rewind time, most people would probably answer "Braid" in a heartbeat.
That or Prince of Persia.
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jeb
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2009, 02:16:59 PM »

I will not take any legal action, the games are not THAT similar and he hasn't used any Harvest content (which actually CAN be copyrighted). It's just that... somebody made a flash interpretation of Harvest without giving us credit, or even letting us know.

As Alex says, the flash game is quite well-made and has a lot of features. It's also funny because we talked about being cloned while we were making Harvest (like back in 2007), since we were public about the development and having open beta tests. What we said was, "well, this game is a lot harder to clone than it appears at a glance". What we based that on was how the game handled the massive amounts of energy sparks and enemies at the same time.

This problem would be apparent to anybody developing in flash. I mean... if you're trying to clone the game using C++, you may not discover that it's a problem until it's too late, but in flash you know you can't handle those entities already before you begin making the game. In other words, you need to re-design the game to get around the problem, and that is what David Scott has done successfully. He's using a energy grid with "routers" instead of energy sparks.

In that sense, he has taken a game idea, adjusted it for his needs and released it. That happens a lot in the world of game development. It just startled/shocked me a bit when a friend linked me to the game.
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2009, 04:15:22 PM »

That's totally shameless. Angry

A Nitrome/Squidy style front page post calling them out would serve them right, I think...
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2009, 06:07:20 PM »

Hey, while we're discussing this, a link to your original game would be sweet. You only linked to their game. You missed an opportunity to plug your game with a "Hey, compare ours to this cheep rip off".
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jeb
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2009, 11:14:15 PM »

That's totally shameless. Angry

A Nitrome/Squidy style front page post calling them out would serve them right, I think...

Haha, I had forgotten about that. Those were the days Smiley

Cymon: Heh yeah... Well, here it is, http://www.oxeyegames.com/harvest
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2009, 11:18:49 PM »

Sucks when people take a commercial game and release free competition to it Sad

This post & raising a fuss about it elsewhere is only going to promote theirs even more. Fight fire with fire IMO - clone yourself ASAP (if you're able to) and get it out there before theirs is too well known
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jeb
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2009, 11:25:56 PM »

Sucks when people take a commercial game and release free competition to it Sad

This post & raising a fuss about it elsewhere is only going to promote theirs even more. Fight fire with fire IMO - clone yourself ASAP (if you're able to) and get it out there before theirs is too well known

Yeah, you are right. I want people that are playing their game to know about ours, not the other way around Smiley

I feel really stupid because we had the chance to make an iphone version last summer, but I was too bored (or burned out actually) to get the thumb out of my ass.
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Alex May
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2009, 01:12:10 AM »

No time like the present!
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