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[Rudolf Kremers]

That's totally shameless.

A Nitrome/Squidy style front page post calling them out would serve them right, I think...

Haha, I had forgotten about that. Those were the days

Cymon: Heh yeah... Well, here it is, http://www.oxeyegames.com/harvest

Good game!

[jeb]

Arrgh... I commented on Casual Collective's blog, but my comment was put on hold to be approved. It took some while, so I thought they maybe hadn't noticed it yet, but now they've approved some other guy's comment. In other words, they are giving me the silent treatment! My post wasn't even inflamatory, ranting or bashing, I was just pointing out that I had wished that they had told me about it.

I want this situation to yield something positive for me too, but I can't figure out how to do that.

EDIT: The thing that upsets me the most is that this kind of behaviour is like some tiny kind of EA.

The Casual Collective has raised $1 million from Lightspeed Venture Partners in seed funding.

And they're well-set too. Source

[Kinten]

I do feel flattered. Also now that Harvest has been cloned it feels like Harvest is a concept in its own and not another TD clone (which it never was intended to be).
However I do feel a bit sad that we didn't make a flash version first.
Also it's kinda sad that they remove our comments on their blog even though they are positive responses to their game.

Personally I would never ask for any royalties or ask them to take the game down. It's a tribute, even if they don't even mention us (and they don't have to).

[jeb]

Kinten: your comment was approved Maybe because you didn't include any links of any kind.

[Craig Stern]

Lame, man. I'm sorry to hear you got ripped off like that.

[AndyWiltshireBPA]

I'm curious to see if you get any response from them regarding your enquiries, please keep us updated.

Cloning is one of those difficult inbetween subjects. On one hand, most games are essentially clones of other games, on the other, when do you reach that point that you can define something as original, or at least, that it stands on its own 2 feet.

And of course, how do you enforce and legal proceedings on an international scale...

I was talking to some fellow devs about trademarks of game titles, and even then, it is really only a deterrant, because it would cost so much money, with no guarantees, to try and enforce it.

So the question I pose to the community is:

Where is the tipping point at which you can then call your IP original?

[Alec]

A little birdy told me Dyson was a lot like Galcon.

I don't want to buy Galcon to find out.

Thoughts from people who have played both?

[increpare]

A little birdy told me Dyson was a lot like Galcon.

I don't want to buy Galcon to find out.

geeze you can just download the demo

mechanically, they're quite similar, though dyson's are paced around 5 to 10 times more slowly, and has two different unit types, and a couple of other things I can't think off off-hand probably.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I don't mind cloning of gameplay mechanics, ideas, or whatnot. That's natural. It's when it gets into cloning level layouts that it's pretty despicable (unless it's like, a satire or something). E.g. Zuma cloned the actual level layouts of Puzz Loop. I'd say that when something feels like a weird unlicensed port of another game rather than a variant of another game, it's copied too much.

[Terry]

I don't mind cloning of gameplay mechanics

Right, but in this case it's an exact copy of the core idea and of each mechanic right down to the damn menu layout. However well it may be done, it's still a transparent rip off of someone else's hard work without giving so much as a word of thanks in the credits.

Considering how incredulous people were about all those Crayon Physics rip-offs, I'm kinda surprised people are so mellow about this.

...

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

About which in particular? I think I missed something in the thread.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Oh, seems I missed the first post!

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Anyway, I haven't played Harvest so I can't really comment on how close the two are -- I meant my comment as more of a general rule about cloning than pertaining to this particular case. I'll have to play both first to see if it's something that went too far and was basically an unlicensed port, or if it's just like a spiritual sequel or something.

Anyway, Harvest appears to be on Steam, and this is just a Flash game. Is it really possible that a Flash game, even a popular one, can make more money than a game on Steam? It sounds unlikely to me.

[genericuser]

Anyway, I haven't played Harvest so I can't really comment on how close the two are -- I meant my comment as more of a general rule about cloning than pertaining to this particular case. I'll have to play both first to see if it's something that went too far and was basically an unlicensed port, or if it's just like a spiritual sequel or something.

Anyway, Harvest appears to be on Steam, and this is just a Flash game. Is it really possible that a Flash game, even a popular one, can make more money than a game on Steam? It sounds unlikely to me.

Advertisement?

You might not get a lot of cash for each click, but if you put it up on a dozen different sites, I think you're going to get a lot of clicks; especially since people will go for a free Flash game instead of buying it on Steam.

[jeb]

A little birdy told me Dyson was a lot like Galcon.

I don't want to buy Galcon to find out.

Thoughts from people who have played both?

Heh, yeah... when thewreck once asked what Dyson was like I told him "it's like Galcon but without the silly *poff* explosion sounds." I didn't think of it as a clone though, because there were interface things in Galcon that Hao should've stolen in that case (multi-planet select, for instance).

[jeb]

Anyway, Harvest appears to be on Steam, and this is just a Flash game. Is it really possible that a Flash game, even a popular one, can make more money than a game on Steam? It sounds unlikely to me.

The guy who made this game, Heli Attack 3, wrote on the IndieGames that he had made $20,000 just by getting paid from flash portals to have the game on their sites. I think Casual Collective made a lot more on Desktop TD, but it's hard to say how much they'll make on "the space game," though.

Anyway, it doesn't feel so bad any longer. It's more of a lesson learned. Like I said earlier, it would've been nice to get some recognition from the CC team, but I'm not gonna go all Squidi about it.

[Alex May]

A little birdy told me Dyson was a lot like Galcon.

I don't want to buy Galcon to find out.

Thoughts from people who have played both?

We kind of ended up in the same place as that more by accident than design. The game I set out to clone was Circle

...just kidding, I've never hidden where my influences came from (visually, at least: Blueberry Garden and Circle, also flOw and PixelJunk Eden) but Rudolf's core design for Dyson was originally going to be very different and we had to pare it down to the simplest we could to get it out in time.

In terms of actual differences, I find that the play style of GalCon (and the army of flash ripoffs) is much faster and much simpler. Dyson's like the slow, thoughtful cousin of those games.


I've not yet played Space Game for long enough to really assess whether its changes to Harvest's design have improved it or not. Just from 5 minutes play it felt like a different game to me though... it didn't feel like I was playing Harvest with an asteroid belt skin, is what I mean.

[Rudolf Kremers]

A little birdy told me Dyson was a lot like Galcon.

I don't want to buy Galcon to find out.

Thoughts from people who have played both?

Heh, yeah... when thewreck once asked what Dyson was like I told him "it's like Galcon but without the silly *poff* explosion sounds." I didn't think of it as a clone though, because there were interface things in Galcon that Hao should've stolen in that case (multi-planet select, for instance).

The Dyson - Galcon comments keep popping up so I want to restate a few things. :-)
When I wrote the original design for Dyson, and for a long time while we were developing Dyson I had never heard of, or played, Galcon. I even told Haowan after the name kept popping up more often that I did not WANT to play it as I did not want to be influenced by any design similarities. Furthermore, the additional design changes that are yet to be implemented are very different from galcon. The design of Dyson is based on what we think is appropriate to the game expereience we have in mind, not on what we can borrow or clone from other games. There ARE of course other influences, but they are much different ones than most people seem to think. :-)

Edit:
Thanks Alex :-)

 

[jeb]

Re Rudolf:

Yeah... I'm currently working on a game that is similar to Faery Tale Online's concept. But I had already worked on the project for a while when I first noticed it here at Tigsource. So I decided to do like you... to never play the game and continue with my own style instead. It was a "oh crap" feeling when I read the FAQ on his site, though

Like you said, Dyson is similar to Galcon by coincidence, in the way Hollywood makes twin movies (The Prestige and The Illusionist, for example), and such situations will keep popping up.

[Rudolf Kremers]

Re Rudolf:

Yeah... I'm currently working on a game that is similar to Faery Tale Online's concept. But I had already worked on the project for a while when I first noticed it here at Tigsource. So I decided to do like you... to never play the game and continue with my own style instead. It was a "oh crap" feeling when I read the FAQ on his site, though

Like you said, Dyson is similar to Galcon by coincidence, in the way Hollywood makes twin movies (The Prestige and The Illusionist, for example), and such situations will keep popping up.

Yeah I believe the only way to deal with these kinds of things is to politely counter misconceptions to a degree, and just make the games you want to make. Not much else you can do really :-) Anyway, if you you feel passionate about games like you cleary do the best weapon in your arsenal is to produce more high quality ones. :-D I for one can't wait what you guys have in store next. :-D