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[Greipur]

I think it's a wise decision to go singleplayer, multiplayer programming is hard I've been told and as you say it's hard to attract a crowd when you're not an established name in the indie scene.

Though, perhaps a sequel could be multiplayer? 

[TurboGun]

Came for the JJBA reference, stayed for the concept. Sounds cool!

-Kris

[Joh]

Came for the JJBA reference, stayed for the concept. Sounds cool!

-Kris

Alright! Reference was understood by someone! (and he stuck around! Bonus!) Seriously, I hope the game will allow to scheme until it bites you in the ass! (That's truly planned tough... too extreme precautions could backfire).
Now that the title has served its purpose... maybe its time, I start thinking of a true title.
Kinda hard thinking of something original...
The last of us (goddammit!)
But it was me! (i dont think so)
Murder island (for sure this exists)

If I don't change theme/setting my current idea is: Best Friends for now.
but ill think this over, for now its project killer; You thought it was [insert innocent person] but it was me! The Player!

I think it's a wise decision to go singleplayer, multiplayer programming is hard I've been told and as you say it's hard to attract a crowd when you're not an established name in the indie scene.

Though, perhaps a sequel could be multiplayer? 

eheh... One game at a time (can't believe im saying that)
Not sure i'd use the same format, but id definitly love to make a whoduntit online!  but who knows, maybe by then ill have a better idea... thats probably whats gonna happen So many ideas, so little time!
I'll at least commit to this one!

[mzn528]

Interesting concept, the only thing I have in mind is probably the art style. For now the characters seem a bit too cartoonish (constant smile, black outline, lack of shadow), I think if you can use a darker or more subtle palette or give your characters some shade it will be a lot more consistent with the theme.

Other than that, fantastic work and I look forward seeing more of this, keep us posted!

[Joh]

Interesting concept, the only thing I have in mind is probably the art style. For now the characters seem a bit too cartoonish (constant smile, black outline, lack of shadow), I think if you can use a darker or more subtle palette or give your characters some shade it will be a lot more consistent with the theme.

Other than that, fantastic work and I look forward seeing more of this, keep us posted!

The art is pretty placeholder, not only would I rather have a proper artist join me on this, If I went all out, I should be able to do much better. (although still not good enough for me)
Right now im mostly working on gameplay, but maybe it's time I try updating the art myself.

Speaking of which Finnally time for a new Entry!
(please note it is very work in progress)

-Entry 5-
Moving Around

I'll admit I found that one pretty hard to make. I think it had more to do with having a bad base more than anything but I managed nonetheless.

So this is a very incomplete map of the game, but it is enough to test it’s functioning.
You can use the map at anytime to fast travel. The arrows let you pick the room (grid tile) you want to head to, and your path is also shown.

People in the location you pass by will see you and retain that: you came from room X; passed by room Y; and  went to room Z.

Passing by a room is not the same as being in a room, passing insinuates you didn’t have time to do anything and is not very incriminating. That could however change, im thinking of making them the same to keep things simple.
The other individuals as I mentioned before have their own schedule.

They used to simply appear in the room they were scheduled at the right time. Now they actually travel to it. I found it challenging because it involved imaginary travelling. Once someone leaves the same room as you they still travel from room to room until they reach the desired destination.

For example if there is living room>hall> kitchen and person A is in living room. By waiting in Hall you will actually encounter the person during the trave(from living room to kitchen).
After having done it all I realized… Why? And really I have no idea.(except that it “didn’t: make sense”)

Was that all gibberish to you?
Let this awesome (Very placeholder & work in progress) Gif (with explanations!) give you a better idea.


oh, you obviously don't have access to others memory, and you can't see them on the map unless they are in the same room as you.

One “cool” thing is the complexity it adds to avoiding others. Before they used to simply be where they had to be for every day part. With this traveling, you might encounter them at unexpected places.
Using the exemple of above; “Knowing” that one person would be in living in early morning and kitchen in mid-morning, staying in the hall in between would keep you safe as you’d never be in “the same room” as the other. With the traveling, as explained above, during the travel, the NPC will encounter you in the hall.

In the end this is all part of the information gathering. It allows people to notice when others (yourself included) lie in the trial or say the truth. You (and the others) can't know everything, but you can at least know what you saw.

Up next, I was thinking of working and expanding on the investigation... but the art, maybe ill experiment with it. I might not be very good, but its fun from time to time, would be a nice little break

Anyway, thats all for now, as always feedback, suggestion and comment are always appreciated!

[dhondon]

What percentage of the profits are you offering the game artist?

[Joh]

What percentage of the profits are you offering the game artist?

Im really not sure to be honest I wasn’t even thinking of profits yet (although sure, that would be ideal). I guess it might have been early to look for an artist, not that I claimed otherwise. I don’t feel like I have enough information to set an amount in stone yet. Further discussion on the topic should however go to pms or email.

Actually, realizing my plea might have been too much commitment for anyone but myself (fair enough) and that the Art may have worse than I thought, perhaps even off-putting for some. (Big thanks to those who stuck around nonetheless )

-Entry 6-
Art experimenting part 1 of ?

Well, I started looking into what I could do to improve the art.
First I started doodling. It had been forever (Years!) since I last drew, so it was much fun! I also got reminded of how bad I am at it. After much bad to decent attempts, I compiled those I thought looked alright.

• 1 and 2 are the last ones I made, I was trying to make to make the character looking older, I feel 1 looks off and 2 still looks young.
• 3 would be my first try anime influence is quite heavy.
• 4 is a surprise, result of random doodling, Im actually quite fond of it.
• 5 was an attempt at “de-animefying” 3 to little success
• 6 is probably my favorite, most normal looking attempt
• 7 is another one I like, simple and cute, not sure it fits the setting though.
• 8 Is awful… me trying to hand draw what I currently use in game.

So out of those, 6,4 and 7 are my favorites. What do you guys & gals think? Anything I should try? Any suggestion comment?

Oh and well, hand drawings are not very relevant to how the game looks, so I also tried playing around with the main character.

I wont go through all these iterations, just the general idea: A story!
B is my awfirst attempt, C is returning to A and attempting to improve it. I thought It gave a decent head. I went through many head edits (1-3 + more) and ended up with D. Figured I wasn’t good enough for shading so removed it. Felt it looks too young so started shrinking the head. Some small edits here and there and reached L, what I feel is my best one.
Other notes

• Head 5 is a representation of my hand drawing 7.. still think its cute.
• H was an attempt at adding some grittiness, I didn’t really like it.
• I’ll admit I do kind of like some of the bigger head (3,4) but I just don’t want little kid-like figures killing each others and no, they are not 9000 y.o dragons. Maybe its ok?

So the same questions as above apply once more. Is this better? (id hope so!) do you think it reaches “not off-putting” level of quality? Perhaps acceptable <- please say yes

[Joh]

Well, I put art experimenting on the side, although im still progressing. I think ill be able to put out something that looks good.

Sorry, but the original art will stick around a bit longer.
I however have a new update! Things are moving quickly!

-Entry 7-
Investigation

Investigation starts after a meeting with someone not joining in, or when a body is discovered.
When someone is not found, everyone will part way looking for that person: the investigation has already started and thus anything suspicious they find is recorded. Once someone find the body (and someone will) everyone else is called to that area. A body discovery scene/discussion occurs and then the investigation continues.


If the body is found before a “missing person meeting” the person that finds the body calls everyone, there is the body discovery discussion and the investigation starts straight away. In that case the investigation lasts longer because it will be all the remaining time until next meeting (premature investigation) + all the time of the next day period (like normal investigation)

In this scene, Tyson was killed in the kitchen and left there alone. When all the others headed there for the meeting well: Bad surprise! Dat emotion though! forgive the poker face; it will also be replaced eventually.

Not sure if I should go for bigger pixel art models or simply drawings for the VN models. (after quick research, pixel art vn models dont really exist... Im doomed! ok, not really ill figure something out)

During investigation you can no longer cover up. All you can do is investigate. To save you from “slip ups”(and myself some work), you can only mention things you have investigated or remember during trials.
So even if you know where the weapon is (because you hid it) you can only ever know/use it if you investigated/found it during the investigation.
Ex. If you hid the knife in the toilets, but never investigated it in the toilet, you cannot mention that fact.

When you investigate an object it gives you some evidence. Your player has a short reaction(not yet) to whatever is investigated and new evidence pops up and is recorded to your phone.

During investigation by talking to others you can get more information: testimonies. Right now they just give you all the character’s knowledge excluding everything related to you.
I want them to eventually consider the relationships they have and importance of the info to choose what knowledge to disclose.

Im not sure but I may also add false information. (if relation is very bad perhaps)
Furthermore, listening to testimonies ends the current time (sub)period. So basically you can only have 3 testimonies in a normal trial. (but one might result in more than 1 evidences)
You can talk to the same person more than once, they might have obtained new info after further investigation, but it still costs you the time period.

I still have some bits to work on for the investigation, mostly the details i mentionned I want to add, but thats about it! It was quite a challenge and im glad to have made i through after I finish up the little things left I can go encounter the final boss, The Trials (with final form The Art).

Im looking foward to it and hope you do too!

[Joh]

-Entry 8-
Update and Mockups!

Its been a while since my last entry, And I honnestly haven't had much visible progress. Worked a lot on improving things I already had. for exemple when investigating, NPCs move (in the room) to the different points of interest. (evidence)
worked on a sentence generator so when you discuss evidence they talk about the evidence:
ex:(responding to having to being asked if anything interesting was found)
Well I saw blood in the kitchen.Can't believe someone did that. Absolutely disgusting.

This is made up of multiple small sentence parts, some are present some are not, most have some variants and I want to have a lot of variety so they stay kind of unique. although there are only so many ways to say you saw blood somewhere.

I also started to work on the trial, the base is there, been approaching the challenge of generating the trial. kind of hard but I think I can do this. Discussing what im planning for trials is probably what my next entry will be about.

except bug fixing, another thing I did and put quite some time into is working on Art, lots of time went on it (oups) and I think i managed to get something good. I still haven't implemented it yet, but it really shouldn't be hard/long once I decide to go for it. I just wanted to at least get some feedback before going ahead.

So here is what I have:

The good old kitchen, new verion mockup (Real deal should be very similar to it)

and well, I did say id improve/figure something out for the visual novel elements.

If it was actual talking, instead of tought small cloud, it would be a bubble talk pointer(small).

Made the model by trying to convert my hand drawing to digital, and thought I fell on something interesting (as far as amateur art goes)simple cartoonish, sketchish
I'm curious if the text box and font are alright, checking most VN they tend to go for gradient boxes, haven't seen speach/thought bubbles used (although im sure it exists). They are a bit plain, but do the job, not sure how id improve on that.


So what do you think? approved? comment, suggestion? fire away!

oooh and bonus! some (reverse?)fanart I made! maybe ill color it someday.

[wizered67]

The kitchen looks nice and it looks like you're making good progress! The mechanics look like they're starting to come together and it sounds like it should be fun. I wasn't a huge fan of the text font, but I don't really have any suggestions for a better one.

[Joh]

The kitchen looks nice and it looks like you're making good progress! The mechanics look like they're starting to come together and it sounds like it should be fun. I wasn't a huge fan of the text font, but I don't really have any suggestions for a better one.

This really did move a lot, I also think the new coat of paint delivers makes it more evident.
I started adding it in-game and took the opportunity to resize the game.
used to be 960x480 and I shrunk it to 640x360, scales nicely to full screen and the previous size had way too much free space.

One design element im not sure of is where to position the smaller rooms. when in small room (like toilet) much of the area is black (not room) and I don't know if I should center the room (always in the middle) or leave it "location sensitive" As in room is on the edge of the side you come from.
ex the toilet is right (to the hall) if you enter it, the room will be glued to the left side.

As for the font ill look into that, is the Hud font alright? I could use that. Part of me want to use something really simple and bland like Arial but I feel it would look off/lazy.

Im working on the new models for the other characters, so some might face some changes. (not that I ever really showed them). Anyway, looking foward to have more to show!

[Joh]

Alright!
Afraid there wasn't much progress since last time, I left for a trip expecting to come back full of energy but actually came back sick. A great mental recovery (not that I was in a bad shape) kind of ruined by a bad physical state.
Anyways if the coding side didn't progress much(so much revisiting code because of the resizing!), concepts did! It wasn't too hard to just relax and think of what I wanted to do with it.

So here goes:

-Entry 9-
The trial (Core)

The trial much like danganronpa & ace attorney revolves around finding contradictions/lies in opponent statements. With the added responsibility of putting out your own and not getting caught.
Since you are the killer, framing anyone else results in a victory. Since you made the kill and it obviously wasn’t scripted, theres a bit more freedom at the cost of, ill admit, a bit of narrative.
I initially said the trial would be akin to a battle, and that is the case.
Everyone has an health bar (suspiciousness (0- > 100)) and special bar(credibility (100 -> 0))
since going from 0 to 100 is weird in bar form, I might change it to "innocence".
The goal is not to outright bring one person to 100% suspiciousness, but to simply have someone else take be found guilty (high suspiciousness helps, but if everyone is highly suspicious, it doesn’t help the consensus.)

Gameplay
The main mode is
Listening
In this mode, one at a time the others make statements about whatever is being talked about.
Each statement is shown for a while before moving on to the next (automatic change)
During this time you have your “listening” menu open (similar to an rpg action menu)

• You can Object if (you think) the statement is false
• you can support if (you think) the statement is true
• you can use skills for whatever reason.
• Or you can simply do nothing and let the statement change.

Mockups
(sorry for no background)



Both Objection and supporting work on two level: general & specific.
If you select objection(general), you will claim the statement is wrong. To which your opponent could simply say: no its true. (could also admit his mistake)
In that situation you can accept having been wrong or insist on it being wrong by pulling out evidence (specific).
If you pull out correct evidence after being denied you will deal critical damage. If you are wrong you receive critical damage.
dmg= initial objection +(maybe) specific (critical) objection
You can also object directly with an evidence.  This goes directly to specific critical damage.
dmg= specific (critical) objection
So depending on what way you decide to object/support you can deal (or be hit by) different level of damage.
Id say general objection is better when you’re not sure and a specific one and specific objection when you are sure.

(Specific) evidence menu for Objection. (same for agreed) (mockup)

One problem I am facing is the ridiculous ammount of evidence that is available. (everyone records their everymove over potentially 9 sub-day periods.) I am thinking of only showing "context sensitive" evidences (depending on the subject at hand) But I am curious How much evidence choice is Too much evidence?

At the end of the discussion you are asked if you want to rerun the discussion. If you do everything will be resaid, giving you another chance to spot contradictions. You can rerun the same discussion 3 times with no consequences, more than that and your credibility/suspiciousness take a hit.
So that is the main gameplay mode of the trial.
It also contains two sub elements.

Think Fast
At anytime during the trial someone could ask you a question, you will have answer choices replace the usual “listening” menu. The answer is permanent and final. The consequences will only happen once (Even though it will be restated when you rerun the discussion) So stay on your toes!

My statement
This one is very large because it will depend on context, but this is essentially how you give your facts about whatever is being talked out. So if  you are discussing your locations throughout the day, when it is your turn your character won’t be honest and say where you have been. You will have the map pop up and be asked where you have been. Feel free to say the truth or lie. Don’t be stupid however, the others will spot illogical stuff.

So that is the core of the trial, I do have ideas for other modes (and they will likely be implemented) ill discuss them some other time. On thing at a time, just building this up seems intimidating enough.

So, does this system seem alright and interesting? Used a different font this time, is it better? And of course how much evidence would be too much?
Answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated.
 As well as any contribution really. As always, I'm open to suggestion and feedback!

[Joh]

Been held back by the jams lately, but I've made progress. Unfortunately the progress involves simply Achieving in game my mockups (mostly functional too). I Feel I should stop doing mock ups or at least showing them because it shows progress that has yet to be made, lessening the perceived progress when the it is actually achieved.
(But hey, I love mock ups, they give a good vision I work hard to achieve )

Things having slowed down nonetheless, I think I will start weekly updates regardless of actual progress made, to keep myself involved and the community updated.

-Entry 10-
Update & the Trial (part 2).

SO things are starting to come together really well!
Main thing that is still missing is Text that makes more sense and feels fluent, but the main ideas are there.
and some chatter may happen
(background still in progress and not quite perfect yet, but its a start)

Essentially everyone is divulging the locations they have been at throughout the day.
Everything is still very basic but can easily be complexified.
Characters choose if they lie or say the truth. (Obviously wont be all In your face in the actual game)
All their statement are based on evidence they gathered.
Using that, I can easily figure out what objects & agrees to it.

An actual Objection (Not shown in gif)
Either damage the opponent and make him change his version (right)
or Hurt you and continue (your mistake)

I haven't done Agreements yet. (essentially the same as objection)
but they will either Heal you and your opponent (right or no one has evidence against it)
or cause a third party objection. (wrong+someone else has evidence against it)

there is some random chatter that is essentially irrelevant.
-That's cool and all... (transition chatter, more fluent flow)
-They see me trollin... (totally irrelevant chatter)
-thats odd.. (context relevent chatter, kind of hints)
But what it does is prevent the talk from being: I was there,I was there,I was there.
Right now they are all fixed for exemple sake, but Ill make them more varied and appropriate.

oh and all of that is randomly generated!

Hope this was interesting! Feel free to ask any question or post feedback. My previous entry questions are also still Very valid.

[gunswordfist]

You thought it was Joh but it was me, gunswordfist, all along!

This concept reminds me of the comic book Criminal: The Last Of The Innocent. That might be worth checking out.
Edit: Also, lol at this exchange:

[Joh]

Wait... so I didnt make the Ga.. NOOOOOO!!!

Welcome onboard gunswordfist! dont steal my game!   

I really need to give this a proper name -_-

Have'nt heard of Criminal: The last Of the Innocent. Ill try looking into.
I really like the Mystery genre, although I'm quite busy these days with this game.

And good eye on noticing the glorious nature of the exchange.
Been a while since I thought of the kill system but due to the appreciation it received I definitly want to include a comic portion. I hope it turns out well.

But for now, im still on the trial. Its essentially half the game so I hope it sounds great!

[gunswordfist]

It's more of a "he definitely did it crime noir Archie comic" comic than a mystery...hell, it's no mystery. lol

Yes, please keep the comic book exchanges. That could lead to a lot of greatness.

[Joh]

Been a week, time for an update!

-ENTRY 11-
Weekly update

Iv’e revisited a lot of stuff again, I guess that is the downside of starting fast. That and deciding to reskin the game mid-development. It does look far more pleasing now, so I feel its worth it.
So what got done?

• Made skill usage
  -made a nice (not nice enough yet) usage anim
  
  More on skills to come
  

• Added general objections
• Made answering questions work.
• I started redoing the main menu
• Realized talking to people made them give you “Investigation locations” and removed that. (For the most part, where you (all) have been during the investigation should be irrelevant)
• Returned on the working on the player sprite, as well as the other sprites.
• Probably a lot of smaller stuff

And this is a little art piece I made! (I guess, I like trying stuff out)

It should be the background of the pause menu

I should have more stuff next time, so hopefully you stick around!

[wizered67]

Wow, looks like you're making a ton of progress. Keep up with these awesome updates! I think the presentation of things during the trial looks really cool. The closeup face and "hold it" looks great!

[Joh]

Thanks a lot, that's super encouraging!
Things are actually going quite smoothly these days!
Got my first follower on my blog (features some of my other stuff too), things are moving along, got time.
It's great you like the presentation, i had mostly positive feedback on it. I'm not satisfied yet, but I think it is good.

I think  ill have to edit the zoom model as I find it looks a bit too young.
It might be missing a little flash/impact
and the font is still not set in stone.

As for the overall look, I think the bubbles stand out oddly. ill eventually try to remake them better (better and wiggling if not annoying), but for now it works. I like the concept of thought bubbles as theme, although sometimes I wonder if I should have went for a more gamey menu.

im looking foward to the next update, I hope things keep going smoothly because its an essential part.

[hsnabn]

Hey there Joh, just posting to say that I absolutely love what you've done with this idea! This game looks like it's going to be completely awesome, especially the trial sequences. It's sort of like Final Fantasy with words!
Also, I would love to see the interactive comic sequence kills. it's much better than traditional "battles".
Keep working on the game!