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[Joh]

Thank you hsnabn! I'm glad the trial looks interesting, especially so early on! Final fantasy with words is what I have in mind, well pseudo-rpg to say the least. It still takes a lot from murder mystery though.

Oh and its great to hear people, speak up about the killing mechanic, I asked about it a long time ago, but it's still up for discussion, as is pretty much everything I asked about.
And yeah, i'm definitely heading towards a comic approach at this point, lots of positive feedback on that!

But today, Is update day, and I have been waiting for this one (well more like rushing to make it)

-ENTRY 12-
 Trial flow

Quit a big update today, also Slight title change to... smoothen title transition? Don't want to loose you followers!(and lurkers) Project Killer will be the title until I settle with a final name.

I actually never mentioned the overall flow of the trial in my previous posts about it so I made a flowchart.
I did mention it was non-linear, semi-linear would be more exact. And I have shown the listening mode gameplay. However, how does it all connect?
TLDR:(or/& read what follows)


The listening mode I showed (where everyone states their location) is one of many sections in a trial.
The trial should start with an intro: the basic facts being laid out.

Then the case is defined: this section you set the current consensus on:
•   Time –set the time frame for the murder
•   Location –set the scene of the crime
•   Weapon –set the murder weapon

Then you debate: In this section you set the personal alibi, weapon access & other things.(these use the case defined facts(consensus) as a basis)
•   Alibi –this is what I showed (in an incomplete state) Everyone speaks out their locations.
•   Weapon access –In this everyone speaks out their awareness of the murder weapon; did they see it, did they know it existed, does it belong to them.
•   Other – this is more open, and is a discussion about other relevant facts. Did someone not like the person? who found the body? Was someone too clever? Was someone acting suspicious? Etc..

I think I will make all of these flow one into the next one and after one run, you will have access to the overview menu from which you can revisit any of those and:

[maybe mode] <- not sure if it will happen yet (a big damage dealing) pre-accusation of sorts.

accusation: Accuse someone of having committed the crime.
This is big, when you accuse someone others will have their (independent) opinions about it, agree or disagree depending on the suspiciousness of you and the target as well as other things such as their alibi, relation; Knowing for sure its impossible etc..

If majority is in favor, case is closed and you win, if rejected it causes big damage to you.

Oh and yeah, Ai will be free to launch accusations too!

Heres the overview menu

Its essentially A hub, nothing* happens it. you can choose what section to (re)visit next.
You get to see the current consensus, as in what your group currently thinks are
the time,weapon and location of the crime.
It also shows the current assesment of the other members (it cycles trough them)

and a simple scale of suspiciousness of everyone.

*I want to make it so Ai can decide to go revisit something on their own.(after a long enough delay)
*Accusation from Ai would happen from here

That's it for now!  Feel free to ask any question or share your thoughts

I'll work a bit more on objections and agreements before returning to the murder part of the game. (taking a break from trial progress on a good note) Theres the whole new look I have to continue and probably fixing some stuff.

[Joh]

I had already explained how objection works, but I finally got something to show for it!

Fairly straight foward, this was a "General" objection.
-After claiming the statement was a lie (which it is, its in the text!)
-the opponent refuses to admit it; he has no reason to, you used no evidence.
-You then get the choice to back out (slight damage)
 or look for evidence (big damage if wrong, big damage to opponent if right)

In this exemple I just picked a random evidence, that was wrong, so we are put in our place, and the game goes on.
Had I picked a good one, the opponent would change his version to the truth (or another lie)

text is placeholder'ish, some might even recognize "stuff"
As for the "Objection" exclamation,(I really wanted to use Objection) I at first thought of having multiple different ones for everyone, but I think I will give each character a unique one. suggestions welcomed.

oh yeah, i was wondering if I should make damage more "damage-like" by adding hitmark and/or damage pop-up. its subtle, but there is character shake for now.

Feedback on this would be appreciated, its a fairly important element of the game.

[hsnabn]

I'd say it looks good, Joh! And about the damage thing, a character shake would look good without popups or hit marks. Bonus points if the "health" bar shakes a bit too.

[wizered67]

Looking great! I showed my friend the game and he thinks it looks really interesting too. Can't wait to see more!

[Joh]

@hsnabn
I was actually thinking about health bar shake until i put character shake and thought it was enough. Ill go look for those bonus points!

@wizered67
Nice to see you again, pretty cool of sharing it even with friend and even better that he likes it too!
Heres more! just for you! (ok.. this was meant to happen for the weekly update)

-ENTRY 13-
Other characters, art update

Hi, been pretty busy this week (and assisted to an awesome 3 day convention) so not much happen, plus I showed the objection before this weekly update.
Anyway, back to the daily life "gameplay part".
I made the other characters and im ready to show them, as you can see some got some slight change, some major changes, hopefully for the best.

The cute little guys will be missed. Still rocking my avatar though.

This is not the full cast, but it should last until I got a complete gameplay going. (from murder to trial conclusion)
Might be insane, but ill set the objective to September 1st ludumdare!!! so first half of september . This is of course not the whole game being done but simply the bigger part of gameplay being done and meshing together.
Right now im working on animations

rough walk cycle

Also,  thinking about changing the interactions, It currently simply shows a text bubble describing the action. Im thinking about using small little bubbles with icons.

text bubbles

icon bubbles (+ incomplete living room)
I might add the specific action (like text bubble) at the bottom of the screen, away from focus.

Oh, and those are in-game, so mockup no more (pretty close right?)

Thats all for now, will stick with the daily life part of the game for a bit, try to make everything look and work better as well as perhaps add new locations.

[wizered67]

Whoah, the characters graphics are a huge improvement! Art is not my strong point so I'm sorry I can't elaborate any further but something feels a little off about the main character. Hmm after staring at it for a while maybe it's just that he has a really blank expression and almost seems bored. Overall though all the characters look much, much better! As for the icon bubbles, I think it's a big improvement over the text bubbles too. Another great update

[Alex Higgins]

The dialogue system seems really interesting! Great concept, looking forward to trying it out.

[Joh]

@wizered67
Thanks for the feedback! While the blank expression was kind of what I aimed for, being "bored" wasn't part of it, It really hard to do much with so little pixels in the face. I guess thats why most games have faceless characters these days. Anyway I tried to play a bit with the eyes, I think it improved a bit.


@Alex Higgings
I take it, your talking about the trial? It's pretty challenging to work on, but right now I feel like everything should go alright. I'm past the Hard parts, at least I think. Im looking foward to completing this game too!

but today, Update day!

ENTRY 14
Weekly update Fixing and Arting

A pretty good week, lots of under the hood stuff, but also some art improvement.

I never showed room traveling before, except for the Map teleport. Well I just added a little transition animation. I was planning on making the room change occur when the screen is totally black, but with the speed it goes, I though it looked fine even imperfect like it is (instant room change, the transition actually occurs afterwards) Is this cut corner unacceptable? Do share (if you notice it)

walking travel, featuring improved rooms, new bubbles, new higlights and the shady transition.

Worked on the locations a bit, Living room got a whole overhaul… so much for showing it last week.
Added the “study”,”Library” and “playroom”. They have been there for a while, but never got updated with the new art/screensize, now they are!(still not done though)

Pretty useless but I changed the AI investigation pattern (looks). They used to travel between points of interests continuously in circle. Now they go to the point of interests and stick around for a while, before checking another at random. It just looks more natural I guess, When looking for clues, you actually stay at one point for a while before checking another spot, and sometimes you revisit past locations.(Using that real life experience‼)

Somewhere along the way I broke the “Run away from guy with weapon” system. I fixed it and added the other possibility I wanted: The Ai can instead rush at you. (No attack yet) Or Ask what it is about or stay there (Defend, but no attack yet).
Unfortunate these elements rely on not yet implemented features, I made them but have nothing to show for it (yet).

Worked on my “favorite” problem… the Information amount.  During the investigation you can collect information by talking to others, They used to give you everything they knew (too much info‼!) - > then everything except what is related to you (the player) - > then excluded all (location) info coming from the investigation (still too much‼) - >
Now I took drastic measures, and I hope it doesn’t break the game. The info is randomly given, so asking the same person what he remembers twice, could grant different info. Also the maximum info given is 8.
Im also working on “info condensation” where I could condense multiple evidence in one sentence Ex: if the person  was in the same room all day if fusions all the individual claims into one “was there from X to X”. The evidence pieces would still be received individually though.

Oh and speaking of talking, the last (relevant) thing I did was turn the player interaction to the “VN” style.

New interaction (talk to) it used to appear in a bubble like the ones I just removed.

Overall Im very satisfied with this week, might not look like much to an outsider (I do avoid showing whats not ready) but things overall moved quite foward, lots of little issues fixed, everything looks much better, everything is coming together just fine.

Next ill return to the trial, try to have it fully running. I don't expect to make it for the next Entry with ludum dare taking a lot of my free time(I wonder what ill make!) but we will see how it goes.

[Flatgub]

Ooooooooh am I hyped for this!
I actually tried to make a game like this once, but it was more like a roguelike and it got abandoned...
I'm so glad to see somebody have a proper attempt at this idea!!

[Joh]

Ooooooooh am I hyped for this!
I actually tried to make a game like this once, but it was more like a roguelike and it got abandoned...
I'm so glad to see somebody have a proper attempt at this idea!!

Im honored to see my attempt be deemed proper Ill be sure to deliver on that!
I'm curious though what did you have in mind? (no need to go in too much detail)
And well, if theres anything you thought of that seems to be missing from what im doing, feel free to share it!

Just as I expected with ludum dare (my entry), not a very good week in terms of progress. I'll nontheless share what I did and take this opportunity to share some other things im planning.

-Entry 15-
Weekly update -Return to the trial

Having multiple “Main game element” is pretty sweet because you can just jump from one to another to avoid fatigue. The bad part is you actually need all of them to function to have the game work. (unlike building upon a base and expanding)

Anyway, This week I returned on working on the trial.
I failed to add all trial sections, but I did add the
Define location
Define Weapon.
with Define time & Debate alibi being already there, only Debate weapon access & debate other are missing.
I thought with the base system already being there (I had 2 sections already) It would be easy, but it's still challenging, different section use different info, use a different template so it didn't go as expected.

Heres a gif of overview + a run over define time; not perfect in terms of dialogue yet and still has some debug notes but getting better.

Yes, I know it makes no sense to discuss time of death when he was last seen and found dead in the same period but yeah...

I also started the Accusation
That essentially means the main gameplay of trial is nearly done.
Unfortunately this doesn’t mean the game is done at all… Maybe it reached 40% point.

I had mentioned there were other modes than the “Listening” I wanted to have and that I would expand on them later.

Now is the time. (concepts & subject to change)

Id like to implement at least 2 more “gameplay modes” in the trial.
Opinion clash: During the Define case sections, you are asked if you think the current consensus is wrong and would like to change it. If you do, you’d enter this mode where you’d go 1v1 against whoever proposed the current consensus (of the topic at hand).
You and your opponent will be free to select all the evidence that backs their idea. Then the rest of the crew will majority vote who to follow. Evidence count, suspiciousness and relations would of course be involved in the judgment. Hence you could just try again after making the opponent suspicious and win that second attempt. (but one does not “make the opponent  suspicious” easily)

The other mode is Meltdown.
Lets be honest, who get framed for something and doesn’t freak the hell up at one point?
This mode is a 1vs1 battle against the opponent that snapped. Its actually a very bad mode, one you’d want to avoid facing too much.
In that mode the opponent just throws facts and insults at you. And you have to properly respond to them in a very short time
You’ll have 3 answers: one good(hurts opponent), one neutral(nothing happens), one bad (hurts you)
But very little time to think, for the most part it should be easy. Thing is, you barely have anything to win (opponent is likely already very suspicious), but everything to lose (do bad and you can become quite suspicious yourself)
This mode would be triggered when you destroy someone too much (like really focus on one guy) or when you make the person reach a “breaking point”, It could also be used in an offensive if you yourself are very suspicious.

That's all this time, next week i'd like to complete all the trial sections and start working on the game modes I just described.
As always, feedback and suggestions are appreciated!

[wizered67]

The trial's looking great! Opinion clash sounds really cool in theory but some more info on its implementation would be necessary for me to actually decide if it sounds good. You mention presenting all related evidence. Can you give an example of multiple pieces of evidence that would all support one idea? I guess it's a little hard for me to imagine exactly how this would work.

[Joh]

The trial's looking great! Opinion clash sounds really cool in theory but some more info on its implementation would be necessary for me to actually decide if it sounds good. You mention presenting all related evidence. Can you give an example of multiple pieces of evidence that would all support one idea? I guess it's a little hard for me to imagine exactly how this would work.

Really good reply, I do know my intentions a lot, planned the game for a long time before even starting so sometimes i'm sure I don't explain stuff well enough. You actually put me in doubt because suddenly I couldn't think up of a situation and realized maybe it didnt work afterall! thankfully that was only temporary.

Let's say the murder happened in (our favorite place) the kitchen. You took the time to move the weapon and clean up tool to the living room but the body was found in the kitchen while you were doing it.
Default reaction is thinking the scene of the crime is the kitchen, that is afterall where the body was found.

Still, the weapon is in the living room, bloody cloth is in the living room.
When asked if you agree that the "scene of crime" is the kitchen you could say no and claim its the living room.
Then you'd get a list of all evidence/facts you know.
Of them: weapon in living room, bloody item in living room both support it while only the body being in the kitchen goes against it (would have been blood too, but you cleaned it).
So 2 v 1 (but yes, the body alone should weight more than both of those weak arguments, ill consider it)
Add in a bit of relashionship & suspiciousness sway and the individuals will pick a side.


And yes, you could just go around, put blood in multiple rooms, drop some evidence in random rooms, and (attempt to) put the scene of the crime in any of those. Actual scene of crime would mostly be well "soiled" so time would need to be taken to tone it down or bring other rooms to its level. That would involve moving around a lot; number one way to get caught is moving around. You never know where others be at.

Hope this explains better and makes it clearer!

[Joh]

-ENTRY 16-
Weekly update

Some slow progress, nothing worth showing so far.
-I did the weapon access although still early and subject to change.
-Decided I shouldn’t do the “Other” part yet. "other" elements just aren't there yet.
-Got the accusation functional, not pretty but functional.
So far it takes into consideration
Lie count, suspiciousness and the alibi (even though the alibi isn’t complete yet)
Relationship (trust) & weapon access are the other element I plan to add.

The way it goes for every member is they compare the “Accused person” to the “average of the group (lie count/ suspiciousness) ” to see if overall the accused is “suspicious or a liar” they also compare the accused to themselves those two comparaison add up points or take away points <-black box (sorry guys)
With alibi the kind of alibi itself add/removes points and at the end, depending on the score the person will decide whether the the accused is guilty (agree) or not (disagree).
The result of all of the above also adds "tags" to the reasoning behind the choice. Hopefully I can use those to form coherent small justifications.

Other than that I worked on the opinion clash, Its a lot bigger of an hassle than I expected. I did code some other parts (like the accusation!) having in mind to reuse portion in this mode, and while it does work, im not sure it was worth the hassle. Anyway, just like the accusation its functional but not pretty (nor complete), so I'm not showing it yet.

Id like to show it before the next update but im leaving on a little trip, I also expect a reduction of free time so im not sure how it will go.
Still stay posted! While still in the same "trial setting"... its a bit different so can't wait to have it as I envision it.

[Joh]

-Entry 17-
Weekly update

RAAAGEE‼! Never have I wasted so much time on something! And honestly this

is exactly what happened. I have no idea why it didn’t work and I have no idea why it now works; ill just avoid playing around with that part.
All I wanted to do was cause a “route” switch when you opinion clash and win.
Since the first “current opinion is always where the body was found” the sentences didn’t make sense after the consensus changes. And that was no problem really because I already had an alternate route for it. The Only problem was I needed to add a third route (basically just an alternate ending to the second route) But the game just wouldn’t have it. Whenever I added it, the 2 nd  route got broken (breaking the whole thing) But adding a third level was nothing new, So I have no idea why that happened. After a while, even removing the third route left the game broken (any dev worse nightmare: when backtracking doesn’t work‼) So yeah… after hours (read most of my day) The third route worked and while I know what I did (not why) I still have no idea what it has to do with what was getting broken.
Whatever now it works.

-fresh rant, written right after the event.

All this route/level talk probably makes no sense since I never detailed how the trial works under the hood. Not sure if I should keep it secret or share it, tell me if interested, might do an entry on that.

 
Reached 100 th script, It feel like a lot really, and at the same time like too little. On one hand for what the game actually contains 100 feels like a lot. (then again I do have a “sub program” in it) At the same time, the amount of time im disappointed in my own efficiency, makes me feel like I didn’t compartmentalize enough. Well Cheers 100 th script, I probably wont double that so It’s a pretty good sign that code wise, game is coming toghether!
What is the 100 th script? Well it simply creates the evidence list for the specific section at hand. I mentioned many time that too much evidence‼ This is launched during the trial creation at the end of each section. It goes through all speech and check all  evidence that works (and you possess) and creates a list. That list is the evidence list that will be used in that section.

I originally had plans to do a code clean up if I ever reached 100 scripts, Well it’s a bit intimidating and I probably won’t go through with it, I am kind of curious though: Anyone ever did that? Recheck/organize/format previous code just to have everything cleaner? Is it worth it?


I didn't manage to make the clash proper (in looks) enough to show it in gif; it is progressing though heres a screenshot!

Select the location of the crime you will propose

Oh and I did other stuff.
I made it so the trial can now flow from one section to the next (instead of doing it from the overview menu)
Theres even transition text!

And as described by the 100th, the different sections now get unique "sub-selections" of all the evidence available to you. I guess thats a lot like danganronpa, but no way someone could scroll through dozens of choice in time.

Ill try and get a Opinion clash gif for screenshot saturday, Next ill take a break from the trial section and go back to everyday life. Ill work on adding new locations(rooms) and start working(thinking) on the relationship system!

[Joh]

An Opinion Clash gif #screengifsaturday?
Just according to plan.

A bit of Fastfoward here and there and placeholder text, but im not too worried, got all the info needed to make it work already.

Fairly straight foward;
We are asked if we agree with the current consensus: the murder location being the study (default, where the body was found)
By selecting no, we cause an opinion clash. (the "I dont think so!" scene is placeholder)
first you select (for this case) the location
Then the evidence you can pick as much as you want, anything wrong gets called out and is ignored for voting process.
-REASONS- Well, that would be the very reasons used to make it the current consensus in the first place.
-TBD- Well, I explained in my previous post that the people have independant reasons for voting, Right now they are not "sentences" so I hid them to keep their reasoning secret 

Then there is the whole voting and verdict as you can see, the verdict is listening to my awesome new idea (because my argument was valid and the previous idea had nothing for it)
This is also seen by the fact that after it all,
"Thus the murder location is the kitchen" <- it changed from study.

If we were to re-listen to the testimonies, the whole thing would have had changed. (that's what went so wrong last week)

Anyway, glad to finally have something to show. Does this look good? Any feedback and questions would be appreciated.

[wizered67]

I think it looks pretty cool! I don't really have any constructive feedback at this point but I'm looking forward to more updates!

[Alex Higgins]

The UI's a bit plain, of course, but everything moves around and is arranged on the screen nicely. All of the visual information's conveyed clearly in a way that makes sense, which is the important thing.

[Joh]

The UI's a bit plain, of course, but everything moves around and is arranged on the screen nicely. All of the visual information's conveyed clearly in a way that makes sense, which is the important thing.

Thank you, UI is indeed plain, not sure where im going to go with it but I definitly plan on improving it! (hell if it weren't for the lines could have had that update a bit earlier but it was so dead.
It good to hear the info is well conveyed, that's kind of important!

I think it looks pretty cool! I don't really have any constructive feedback at this point but I'm looking forward to more updates!

No need to always bring constructive feedback, although it always help, simply a post letting me know your still interested is just as if not even more powerful . It always feels great to know people are interest in what your doing and waiting for more! (and then you feel bad for failing to deliver fast enough)

Any update finally!

-Entry 18-
Relationship system

My free time has taken quite a hit, so sorry for not updating as much as used to.
Finally managed to get something done though. Or at least started: The relationship system. its similar to social link/bounding.
For now I just did a simple menu from which you can check your current relationship with the others. The white squares represent the level of closeness. You increase it by hanging out with the character. For now one hang out gives one level, but I think I might make it a bit more complicated like a hang out and actually doing good in conversation (answering questions).

Each level and hang out will let you learn more about the character. Might make you actually like a character, or dislike him or you might learn stuff to frame him or reasons not to.
I mean if a character happened to say: “I don’t know about you but I always take a dump before dinner” that’s good to know I guess, but you know what: IT IS GOOD to know. Don’t be in the bathroom before dinner red-handed.

I just made up the above, but its an exemple of the kind of info I’d like to be obtainable from hanging out. And no, not everything you learn has any use. Some will be useless and some might be a lot more subtle in use.
So character will have 6/5 hang outs clearing them all for “max friendship” I put friendship in quotation because its not really friendship and more closeness. The closer you are to someone the more you know about them, and the more friend you are likely to be.

But doing dick move/ betrayals won’t reduce the “friendship level”: what you learned is learned. It will just make the character not like you; even though he still shows lv 4/5 to you.
The way id put it is the same way you could just “grind” a relationship just to better eliminate that person; someone you actually like might not like you back as much. The relationship levels are not exactly mutual (still, you do have much sway) and the way others feel about all the cast stays in a black box. Or who knows! Maybe you could learn some stuff by talking with them!

As for why its all so complicated, well id just rather avoid any abuse, and masterful relationship playing for victory. Since relationships have a major say in trial results.

Oh and I explained there being 5/6 levels of relationship. And I would call those “main line” events, but I also want to have some more hidden special events. They would be obtain in unique situations a bit like easter eggs, but still relevant if not more than normal events.

Still subject to change of course, so id like to know what you guys think.
also, this(Tigs) is still my main devlog but having recently gotten 1 new follower (such humble beginings  ) if tumblr is your thing you can follow me there too!

[Joh]

-Entry 19-
Meltdown begin

Another extended down session, Game is still alive and well though, simply was fairly busy for a while.
Anyway got to work on this a bit slowly yet surely I have been building the Meltdown mode; the final main gameplay mode of the trial.
Not sure it will play as expected though
Currently I have 3 types of attacks planned out (thrown by the opponent)
-Swearing
-Fact checking
-Questioning

I started with the simplest: Swearing.
When the opponent swears there is really no right answer. At first I wanted to make it so there where but I came to the conclusion it was too subjective, I mean whats the proper answer to “fuck off”?
Instead I made it so there are only 2 possible answer, Insult back or calm down/spin it. They come in multiple form and my goal would be to have enough of them so you cant just learn them all and the same ones wouldn’t pop up too often.
As I said, that mode really isn’t hard, Its more about not screwing up then being clever. At hardest, maybe the subtleties of passive aggressive responses and whether they count as “lowering yourself to opponent level”.
That being said, I want to make it so that by insulting back: you would take damage (loss of credibility) but also deal some more to the opponent, the choice becoming essentially: Self damage+more damage on opponent or simply “basic damage” by deflecting the insult. (fail to defend yourself and youd take the damage alone, but there’s no reason for that to happen.)

early screen (clearly I need to work on new reactions for the characters)


Haven’t started working on the two others yet, but the idea of fact checking would be asking question about stuff that was said in trial. In that situation there would be good & bad answer hurting either you or the opponent.
Questioning is more random question that don’t have anything closer to a trivia with good bad and neutral answers. They are there to add variety, a true feeling of “what the hell is he even saying anymore” and actual opportunities to screw up. + Maybe some question would look a lot like they belong in one the other group.
Ill admit though, even im not sure if it will end up interesting/compelling so im realy curious of opinions or even suggestions (improvements or even different ideas).

I really need to get to making new emotion/reactions for the characters, looking forward to having the whole trial a bit more alive. 

[wizered67]

Very glad to see more progress! Good work!