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[gimymblert]

You just described lady chaterley, a classic of literature

[Derek]

Adrian Chmielarz (Vanishing of Ethan Carter) wrote a - imo - pretty thoughtful analysis of the Sunset situation. He said some pretty dumb stuff during the whole Gamergate thing, but... I think he makes sense here.

http://www.theastronauts.com/2015/06/what-really-happened-to-tale-of-tales-sunset/

I backed Sunset but haven't played it yet. I was really hoping that ToT would take the great visuals and interesting concepts of their previous games and combine them with great game mechanics, but it sounds like they didn't manage the last part. I think Adrian's book analogy is apt: it's not like I wanted them to write an action-packed sci-fi/fantasy novel instead of a book of poetry, I just wanted them to embrace the medium of books and make the font more legible, make the pages easier to flip, etc.

In general, I feel like it's a bit late to still be offering really stripped down interactivity in a video game, even a notgame or art game. I understand that it makes sense to do so when you're trying to shift the paradigm, but now that these types of experiences are becoming more established, isn't it time to start adding complexity back in?

I probably shouldn't say more until I've tried the game myself. Just came across this article and wanted to share.

[gimymblert]

thanks

[gimymblert]

ToT should be art director and not executor, direction is strong the technical aspect is floppy.

[JWK5]

BTW, Gimmy, that is what I meant by they have the "why" but they are unrealistic about the "how" and the "what".

I think what they are trying for is good, I just think they're unsure of how to try for it and as a result they are veering off course and it sounds like they're getting angry at others for their own misdirection. Their best bet would have been to pair up with people who have a stronger sense of direction when it comes to the "how" and "what".

I'll give them credit, though, the "why" is often the most grueling part of it all to figure out.

[gimymblert]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1068022

[gimymblert]

http://taleoftales.itch.io/

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

all of this must have boosted their sales right now.

[Mittens]

all of this must have boosted their sales right now.

Exactly, let's not pretend this pity party is anything more than alternative marketing

[DJFloppyFish]

man, i really feel like there is no better time for interactive story experience type games. weird to see them blame/complain about gamers because i feel like tacoma and fire watch are gonna come and do relatively well, just as gone home did before.

the dudebro boogeyman is still real, but more and more types of games are getting more love/exposure. i really think its a good time for games

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

all of this must have boosted their sales right now.

Exactly, let's not pretend this pity party is anything more than alternative marketing

it's undeniable that their 'departure' from games is buzzworthy, but, man,

that's super cynical and nasty in a gross way, not really a cool way to treat fellow devs  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(like, I know I shouldn't get in on this cause I was involved in the game, but some of ya'll are talking an awful lot of shit considering we all work in the same industry as tale of tales and face the same financial threats.)

[DJFloppyFish]

the article derek posted was very enlightening, would be curious to see what people here think of it.

i pretty much agree with all of it. sounds like they made a game with some glaring flaws without truly understanding how to make it more approachable to the majority of gamers. i cant even begin to humor the idea that its failure somehow represents gamers unwillingness to understand certain types of games/art.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

you're welcome

[jolene]

rip. interesting thread except the gaters ruining it

[battlerager]

but then why paper please is successful? since when shufling boring paper is fun?

Because there's conflict 



Sorry, back on track. Thanks for the article, Derek!

[s0]

-make crap games
-nobody buys them because they're crap
-it's the consumers fault!

Maybe this will urge them to actually make good games next time.

you sure showed em

[s0]

anyway, i don't think them having to pack up is some kind of horrible crime against humanity but

1. it's sad to lose an original voice (i don't mean voice just in terms of opinions) in videogames.

2. it's interesting to discuss the implications this has for other "artsy" game devs (as we have done itt).

like i said their games do very little for me and i dont agree with their philosophy at all, BUT i think the videogam world needs people like them and games like the ones they made.

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

world always evolving.

New voices will eventually emerge and original artsy will appear .

i used to somewhat admire their work, but i honestly hated playing sunset and the fact that they somewhat said that it's consumer fault leads to ... meh whatever. i'll just wait for newcomers.

[Mittens]

but then why paper please is successful? since when shufling boring paper is fun?

Because the game feels stunning, and the mechanics are fun. The drab subject matter is a skin for an otherwise engaging puzzle game about identifying forgery.
The fact that papers please makes shuffling paper around into a compelling experience is exactly the artistry more devs like ToT need to recognize.
 Papers has intuitive and clean feeling controls/interface. Actions sound and feel solid, it just does so many fundamental things right, I really hope you don't seriously not see the fun in Papers.

[starsrift]

all of this must have boosted their sales right now.

Exactly, let's not pretend this pity party is anything more than alternative marketing

I'm speaking entirely out of my ass, but I can't imagine that this is getting significantly more sales than they otherwise would have gotten later. If you're not a ToT fan and you saw that blog post, full of politely worded bitterness and anger - as well as perhaps that the game would not be updated or patched in the future since they're closing their studio (or not? but anyway), why would you buy in?
I would most likely suspect they're largely just eating their tail. Which, to be fair, they may need to do.

[s0]

but then why paper please is successful? since when shufling boring paper is fun?

Because the game feels stunning, and the mechanics are fun. The drab subject matter is a skin for an otherwise engaging puzzle game about identifying forgery.
The fact that papers please makes shuffling paper around into a compelling experience is exactly the artistry more devs like ToT need to recognize.
 Papers has intuitive and clean feeling controls/interface. Actions sound and feel solid, it just does so many fundamental things right, I really hope you can't seriously see the fun in Papers.

but there are also people who dont judge games on how "fun" they are but e.g. how well the mechanics support the theme(s) of the game. sometimes these 2 things are the same, other times they aren't. nothing wrong with either.