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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesJonathan Blow and The Witness
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Author Topic: Jonathan Blow and The Witness  (Read 22304 times)
joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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« Reply #120 on: January 26, 2016, 11:02:32 AM »

this game is extraordinarily good
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FK in the Coffee
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« Reply #121 on: January 26, 2016, 11:42:07 AM »

Ahhhh I want it so bad
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Armageddon
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« Reply #122 on: January 26, 2016, 10:31:32 PM »

Played 3.9 hours and only got one light beam so far. Imagine making mazes for seven years, yeesh. I'm really afraid the narrative conceit is gonna be art is pointless, science objectivity = best. That'd be rich coming from an art game.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 11:20:45 PM by Armageddon » Logged

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« Reply #123 on: January 27, 2016, 09:04:41 AM »

https://vaguelysubmerged.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/the-witness-is-fucking-stupid/ a very heavily critical piece on the witness that's worth reading (ignore jon blow being called james blow, if that's a big deal to you)
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joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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« Reply #124 on: January 27, 2016, 09:31:45 AM »

Disclaimer: this is both a reply to that lulu article directly above and a bunch of people on twitter:

tbh this shit should make you guys re-examine how far you're willing to go to take down a creator who's distasteful to you -- there's SO much to criticize blow on (daphne's piece was v good, and I've been showing it to friends who ask why people are dissing the witness) but you're doing some fucking gymnastics to apply those criticisms directly to the game.

Deciding a game isn't personal just cause you don't like the voice it's portrarying, or doesn't have good art (!!??!?!?!) just cause the (diverse, amazing, small) art team was hired by jon blow doesn't seem to fit healthily with the REST of the culture I normally see put out by y'all.

I saw an insightful @Dragonmaw tweet yesterday that observed that many of the developers on dmaws feed loved the game, and many of the critics were trashing it -- I think this is a game that it's very hard not to like on its own terms if you engage with it directly. The design and art are so deeply lavish and personal and cared for, it would be impossible for me to look this game in the eyes and say bad about it even if my worst enemy had made it. If HATRED or postal was made with this kind of heartfelt love and devotion I'd probably love them too.


Perhaps abstractly The Witness represents something Bad About The Industry, or society, or w/e, or perhaps jonathan blow isn't actually the literal boogeyman he's just some nerd who wants to make Very Specific Videogames.

======================================


I want to meander a bit from this and talk a little about the art, too: Holy shit, the art is incredible in a way that probably no other videogaem ahs ever been. The love for space and presence of the player put into the game is a 90 degree turn from classic level design. The fact that anyone who's ever opened a 3d program can say cynical things about the visuals in this game -- a game made made by a small art team of a few industry elites, a few industry outsiders with diverse voices (three architects with diverse social goals and really great portfolios,) perhaps now the canonical case for how important it is to bring artists from other fields and alternate voices into your game -- is mind blowing to me. Maybe you think the puzzles are smug, fine, I feel you, but if you think the game looks bad or soulless or whatever you've got something obscuring your vision. It doesn't really matter if it's you or good old JB who put it there, you're missing out on something.

ps:
google the architects -- if you have time, the whole team -- listed here. http://the-witness.net/news/team/

Their work is cool, and it shows through every crack of the game. They're certainly a specific, ivy league intelligentsia version of diverse, but it still has a lot of value.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 09:48:41 AM by joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ » Logged

Dragonmaw
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« Reply #125 on: January 27, 2016, 09:50:10 AM »

i think it's an interesting juxtaposition to think about the witness and jon blow. because you're right, it is definitely a deeply personal, lavish, and polished game that says a lot about the people that worked on it, especially jon blow. but jon blow is kind of a blowhard and jerk, so the "deeply personal" nature of the witness can alternately come across as "sneering sarcastic condescension" or "quiet affectative meditation" depending on your view of jon blow (and braid).

also yeah i can agree that the artistic design of the world is very beautiful. lots of great composition, and i'm a big fan of the color choices and general use of space.

also ty for liking my tweet  Embarrassed
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joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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« Reply #126 on: January 27, 2016, 09:55:56 AM »

i think it's an interesting juxtaposition to think about the witness and jon blow. because you're right, it is definitely a deeply personal, lavish, and polished game that says a lot about the people that worked on it, especially jon blow. but jon blow is kind of a blowhard and jerk, so the "deeply personal" nature of the witness can alternately come across as "sneering sarcastic condescension" or "quiet affectative meditation" depending on your view of jon blow (and braid).

Right, and a lot of this is a limitation of 'twitter is a bad place to critique art' but this distinction is being lost a LOT. The witness is a great jumping off point to criticize jb, just because it's so personal -- but trashing it as a piece of expression is far off base imo. Some people I really respect were dunking on it for being over-polished, or soullesss, or w/e, and that's such a unfair representation of it. It's just as polished as it needs to be to do what it wants, it's brimming with soul and love and encouragement -- it's just what those elements represent may be very distasteful to many of you.

For anyone who cares about craft and execution (which let's be real, is MOST of us, even those who are interested in rawer, artiser stuff, becuase it's extremely hard to make a videogame without polish and the rare few that hammer things out take that for granted a looot) the witness is hugely inspirational. It's wonderful for someone like me to see a game which validates all the times I've wanted to spend literally weeks tweaking lighting in a scene to make it Say Something but stopped myself because there's no space for that in games.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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« Reply #127 on: January 27, 2016, 04:13:31 PM »

https://vaguelysubmerged.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/the-witness-is-fucking-stupid/

this is the least coherent thing I've read in a very long time.
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« Reply #128 on: January 27, 2016, 05:52:32 PM »

Is this a must have game?
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« Reply #129 on: January 27, 2016, 07:22:58 PM »

I'm enjoying the game. My main problem is that I have no motivation. With Myst you get a video message at the start, okay gotta help this dude. With The Witness it feels like Jonathan Blow was like, "Okay, how can I communicate the most complex ideas possible to the player without any words." And the goal of the game is to prove that he succeeded in doing that. It's gorgeous though, what great visuals. It's head poundingly, stupidly hard sometimes for seemingly no reason other than it can be.
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #130 on: January 27, 2016, 07:25:37 PM »

I'm getting da game then.
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« Reply #131 on: January 27, 2016, 08:20:33 PM »

Pretty expensive game for a little line drawing in a static world.
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« Reply #132 on: January 28, 2016, 04:03:34 AM »

Is this a must have game?
No such thing. Free yourself from the mindset of belonging by consuming.
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« Reply #133 on: January 28, 2016, 05:40:24 AM »

i hadnt really considered getting the witness (as it doesnt seem like my kind of game), but reading people's vicious polemics about what is essentially a nice-looking wordless puzzle game has DEFINITELY piqued my interest!
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« Reply #134 on: January 28, 2016, 10:48:30 AM »

haha at the two endings jesus christ blow Cheesy
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FK in the Coffee
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« Reply #135 on: January 28, 2016, 12:01:44 PM »

haha at the two endings jesus christ blow Cheesy
N O  S P O I L E R S  P L E A S E
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #136 on: January 28, 2016, 12:13:48 PM »

...So far it's literally just puzzles so I'm really confused by Garrent.
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« Reply #137 on: January 28, 2016, 04:18:40 PM »

...So far it's literally just puzzles so I'm really confused by Garrent.

You must not be paying close enough attention.


I think this is the most accomplished I've felt in the game so far.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #138 on: January 28, 2016, 04:20:47 PM »

It will be banned in japan very soon
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« Reply #139 on: January 28, 2016, 05:05:05 PM »

this game is my jam
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