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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesJonathan Blow and The Witness
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Garrent
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« Reply #200 on: February 05, 2016, 03:57:40 AM »

I'm baffled why people who don't like puzzles are buying a puzzle game. I'm not going to buy the next FIFA and then complain that I actually don't like sports games therefore this game is crap since has to accommodate non-sport game players.
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« Reply #201 on: February 05, 2016, 04:43:08 AM »

People bought it because braid was fairly accessible and appealed to people who don't normally play puzzle games, same as portal. This one is more "hardcore" i guess.
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« Reply #202 on: February 05, 2016, 07:02:54 AM »

It's not too surprising. The video reviewer there clearly does enjoy certain types of puzzle games like Antichamber, Braid, and Portal. And all his points are valid. There's absolutely no narrative payoff in the Witness, most of the puzzles could be done in 2D or even on paper, and lots of the environmental puzzles are very easy to get stuck on because you're simply not getting the very obscure clues the developers left in.

I enjoyed the game, but can easily see how someone who loved puzzle games would hate this one.
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« Reply #203 on: February 05, 2016, 11:41:55 AM »

There are different kinds of puzzles.

Imagine if you liked jigsaws, so someone bought you a jigsaw that was just entirely blank with no picture at all. While it would be very, very hard, it wouldn't be any fun to solve.
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« Reply #204 on: February 05, 2016, 01:48:35 PM »

that's a real thing and expert jigsaw puzzlers do enjoy them
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« Reply #205 on: February 05, 2016, 06:46:23 PM »

There's absolutely no narrative payoff in the Witness,

well, there isn't really any narrative to begin with. why would you expect narrative payoff from a game that has none?
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« Reply #206 on: February 05, 2016, 06:51:55 PM »

doesn't blow consider any extrinsic reward in a game to be "unethical" or sth like that? might have something to do with that. i don't remember.
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #207 on: February 05, 2016, 06:55:50 PM »

Maybe, but also when you make a game that looks like it's gonna have strong narrative elements but it turns out that it's mostly devoid of that, it's pretty bad too imo.

I'm sorry I kind of have a bone to pick with this game now...
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« Reply #208 on: February 05, 2016, 07:00:59 PM »

You haven't explained why on your own terms besides the "it doesn't work on my pc".
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« Reply #209 on: February 05, 2016, 07:25:45 PM »

Quote
well, there isn't really any narrative to begin with. why would you expect narrative payoff from a game that has none?
Someone doesn't know there's no narrative until the buy the game and are well into it. The marketing around the game is light, but quite suggestive that there's a mystery to be solved. It's a Myst homage (a game with an elaborate story). There's mysterious statues littered about the island. The name itself and the description are even more suggestive:

Quote
You wake up, alone, on a strange island full of puzzles that will challenge and surprise you.

You don't remember who you are, and you don't remember how you got here, but there's one thing you can do: explore the island in hope of discovering clues, regaining your memory, and somehow finding your way home.

Even hours before the end, it seems like it's all building towards something.
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« Reply #210 on: February 05, 2016, 08:24:51 PM »

I never got the impression that the game was building towards anything throughout my entire playthrough, but you are right about that description, that is definitely giving the wrong impression. I never read it before playing, maybe that's why so many people are sour on it. bad marketing.
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« Reply #211 on: February 05, 2016, 09:05:07 PM »

You haven't explained why on your own terms besides the "it doesn't work on my pc".
Yes, I've mostly blathered about the technical aspects of why the game is bad for me, probably because that's the easiest thing to discern as being bad in a game. But I will elaborate.

The thing which I disliked the most about the game is the lack of feedback. There is no music, or if there was, then it was very subtle because I don't remember hearing anything memorable or entertaining. The puzzles are decent, but they're incredibly opaque and their rules are presented in a very ambiguous way. When you fuck up, they don't tell you or hint at why you're wrong, they just kind of go "nope" with a rather irritating sound effect to boot, especially when you're trying a puzzle over and over again and get it wrong many times. The island feels very static, nothing moves other than you, not even the clouds or the sun. There aren't even small animals or insects, everything feels like it's a statue at a modern art museum, and that's not a good thing in my book. Even the pre-recorded messages don't have anything to do with the puzzles most of the time. I know some of them are hints, but they're so obscure that I know for a fact that I could never have interpreted them as such. I actually caught myself saying this out loud as I was playing: "Why the fuck are you quoting Albert Einstein, I'm trying to solve a line puzzle on a flat screen!?". After three hours of playing, the sterility of it all just got to me, and I simply didn't have the will to carry on.

I refunded the game through steam and bought the latest Starctaft expansion, which is not that great because now I have the opposite problem of having too much information thrown at me at once, but that's besides the point. This game is imply not engaging for me, because what I look for in a video game is stimulation. If I wanted to go do puzzles, I would do my physics homework, or go program, which are both more fun than this. End of rant.
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J-Snake
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« Reply #212 on: February 06, 2016, 07:16:58 AM »

If I ignore story related stuff completely and focus on the puzzle gameplay it is still not good, for a substantial chunk of your play time. The late section of the game, the mountain, is where the game is personally at its weakest(except the one square puzzle deep down on the ground). It is filled with layers of obfuscation which don't add anything to the puzzles, they only add tedious work to get the puzzles into a "cleaned up" shape, and after that they are not interesting to solve.

Overall the game prefers adding nuances to rules rather than adding the need to apply new solution concepts based on existing rules, which is a sign for a (partially) disjointed puzzle system and a source of confusion. All that is wrapped into "style over substance"-presentation, which gives it a sophisticated look and clouds its weakness.
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J-Snake
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« Reply #213 on: February 07, 2016, 06:54:22 AM »

After three hours of playing...

I refunded the game through steam...
Off topic, but I thought the limit of playing is only two hours for that.
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #214 on: February 07, 2016, 03:00:21 PM »

They treat it on a case-by-case basis. Apparently three hours isn't too far from the limit, especially when you consider the total average playtime. I also made a point to tell them that I did not enjoy the game at all.
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quantumpotato
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« Reply #215 on: February 08, 2016, 07:47:22 PM »

Curious if you can point out puzzles you felt were too tedious.
The water reflection tasks for instance, and all those tasks which are about mapping specific patterns in the local environment to a line pattern on the panel.

Point 2: Absolutely agree with you on preferring quality over quantity. That said, even some of the "repetitive" puzzles show tiny incremental variations on the mechanics which help teach the mechanics. Maybe you'd prefer it if there were fewer, tougher puzzles?
I prefer variations in solution concepts, not variations in mechanics. If you introduce too many mechanical changes/additions around every few corners then the player is occupied catching up with that instead of working towards a deeper understanding of the puzzle world you are creating. The game would be just fine with only 200 puzzles if they were more expressive. Personally, it would contribute to a more rewarding experience.

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Mark Mayers
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« Reply #216 on: February 24, 2016, 12:27:26 PM »

I'm still waiting for the Soulja Boy video review.
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« Reply #217 on: February 24, 2016, 12:38:11 PM »

^ pls
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Mark Mayers
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« Reply #218 on: February 24, 2016, 01:22:05 PM »

^ pls

If Soulja Boy and Jonathan Blow meet in real life it might cause a matter-antimatter annihilation that destroys our universe.

Wow there have been articles about this.
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« Reply #219 on: February 24, 2016, 01:36:44 PM »

i actually found soulja boy's braid video pretty funny and imo the people who got mad at it need to take a chill pill.

not aimed at anyone itt, just general statement.
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