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[s0]

i don't really care that much about blow or the witness but i think that article is really uncharitable to him. i don't think it's fair to say he is somehow "anti art". from what i know about him, he's trying to be more like a 20th c modernist. those people also got really formal/"technical" about art and had a strong "ideology" and an idea that art should progress in a certain direction, similar to the sciences.

[valrus]

Yes, and good call on the modernism.

Also, while I usually enjoy a good smackdown on the side of philosophical accuracy and/or rigor (as opposed to out-of-context quoting and highbrow name-dropping), the author is skirting close to the tired trope of Eastern Philosophy being a mysterious island that Western Man May Not Wot Of. 

You don't need extra reasons for Jonathan Blow not to understand Zen Buddhism to your satisfaction; maybe he just doesn't understand it very thoroughly, or just appreciates it aesthetically without being that interested in making sure his game is 100% Zen-compatible.  (While it's not there in a single sentence, I got a strong suggestion of "A young man from privilege and wealth can't hope to really understand Buddhism."  Someone be sure to notify Gautama Buddha!)

[halk3n]

The only thing I really despise about the whole "art game" movement is the part where the creators apparently forgot that art can be fun too, it doesn't all have to be sterile monuments to self-importance and friendly reminders that everyone else's interests are beneath the creators.

I've never met Blow but I think his intentions are noble, if not at least interesting. 
He conveys his primary goal as shaping video games into a 'greater medium.'

Sure that sounds incredibly pretentious, and it totally is.

However, if we want to get past the 'Mountain Dew Dorito Era' of video games we need games like the Witness.

The problem though is that Blow really hasn't altered much with this game in the way of expanding to a "greater medium". In fact, those panels really are just the keys, weapons and any other token-system that allows further access to the greater parts of the game.

It's funny, Braid was the same without it ever trying to explain itself as being "different" where The Witness is trying to scream at every moment that "this is the most different game you have ever played".

[s0]

I havent played the witness but i totally got that vibe from braid and the surrounding discussion at the time also focused on that aspect.

[Mark Mayers]

i don't really care that much about blow or the witness but i think that article is really uncharitable to him. i don't think it's fair to say he is somehow "anti art". from what i know about him, he's trying to be more like a 20th c modernist. those people also got really formal/"technical" about art and had a strong "ideology" and an idea that art should progress in a certain direction, similar to the sciences.

I agree that article doesn't do him justice, but it does point out some of the absurdity with "writers seemingly falling over themselves to praise him as a genius video-game auteur."

Some individuals (maybe not Blow himself) are trying *really hard* to champion games like this to further the medium.
In some ways it's necessary to build a positive perception of video games, but also ridiculous.   

All things being said, I have a large amount of respect for Jonathan Blow and his work.
The Witness is a beautiful game from an artistic and design standpoint. 

I also don't think he's actually that opposed to Call of Duty's multiplayer and its advertisement campaigns, but that's another point.

I think the MTNDEWDORITO association with video games is hilarious.
Although unfortunately it has become the identity of the industry to some. 

[s0]

Some individuals (maybe not Blow himself) are trying *really hard* to champion games like this to further the medium.
In some ways it's necessary to build a positive perception of video games, but also ridiculous. 

tbh championing games like the witness is a step up from championing things like bioshock infinite or the last of us as Great Art™. of course the best thing would be if the whole breadth of the medium was represented more but what are ya gonna do.

[Mark Mayers]

Some individuals (maybe not Blow himself) are trying *really hard* to champion games like this to further the medium.
In some ways it's necessary to build a positive perception of video games, but also ridiculous. 

tbh championing games like the witness is a step up from championing things like bioshock infinite or the last of us as Great Art™. of course the best thing would be if the whole breadth of the medium was represented more but what are ya gonna do.

L U D O N A R R A T I V E D I S S O N A N C E

--

(No but really, I definitely agree)

[ProgramGamer]

Well shit now I feel dumb for not finishing the game

[Schoq]

I feel smart for not playing it

[jeremiah]

^^My gut says Jonathan Blow, if asked, would say that video is completely off base. Since he repeatedly complained that Braid was misunderstood by just about everyone.

I do admit that the puzzle in that clip is pretty cool and I didn't catch that.

Also, the "secret" video that is presumably from Blow's perspective. Holy crap, I can't believe people are taking it so seriously. The guy wakes up off a bed, pulls electrodes off of his body, glances at a jug of piss, walks around, falls to the ground clumsily, take a cookie and throws it across the counter, eats half of a cookie and throws that one too, generally fucks around making overly obvious reference to the hidden environmental puzzles in the game and puzzles being "everywhere."

I got one thing from that video. It was a fucking joke! It's there to prove the dude has a sense of humor.

[Mark Mayers]

I feel smart for not playing it

I wouldn't call the game 'fun.' However, it's definitely worth playing.

[Tanner]

i like puzzles and think it's fun

[gimymblert]

I didn't this channel to cover this game ...

[eyeliner]

The mere fact that Blow's game can spawn such a discussion is already a victory for him.

I've played Braid, finished it, and liked it. I appreciated the finer bits of the story, and couldn't dissotiate the creator from the game. I really liked the end words.

The witness is just that. his thing. Take it or leave it, but it has grown to be more than just a game. It is a topic for reflection and discussion.

That's OK in my book. Blow won yet another round.

[jamesprimate]

How much of that is the game and how much is his "celebrity"? Somewhat like Kanye in that regard, hes found himself in a space where whatever he does generates some sort of intense discussion, media fervor or controversy thats clearly disproportionate and disconnected from the content itself. Not taking anything away from the games at all, but at this point many people just want to play the Jon Blow game so they can comment on it. I mean, this thread isnt even about the witness its "Jonathan Blow and The Witness." People say things like 'they cant disconnect the game from the creator', well thats probably because other than Kojima hes probably the most highly scrutinized game developer out there right now!

And its not even really about him either, is it? With Fish and Notch out of the game and Derek Yu being a frustratingly reasonable and pleasant human being, everybody else wise enough to be out of the spotlight, we're lacking in Big Indie Game Personalities From The Golden Era to get into twitter fights about. Similarly, there is an entire generation of people living indie game culture and a burgeoning critical media thats starved for more thoughtful mature content, "games for people who read Graivity's Rainbow" and all that. A million think-pieces ready to launch and almost nowhere for them to go! The Witness roughly satisfies that need, whether it wants to or not, whether it was intended to or not.

SO whether or not we actually *like* his games is sort of immaterial, because hes exactly what we all need : an artsy, pretentious, uncompromising artist personality to love/hate/argue over.

[quantumpotato]

Similarly, there is an entire generation of people living indie game culture and a burgeoning critical media thats starved for more thoughtful mature content, "games for people who read Graivity's Rainbow" and all that. A million think-pieces ready to launch and almost nowhere for them to go! The Witness roughly satisfies that need, whether it wants to or not, whether it was intended to or not.

SO whether or not we actually *like* his games is sort of immaterial, because hes exactly what we all need : an artsy, pretentious, uncompromising artist personality to love/hate/argue over.

The Witness had a 7? $million budget. If we weren't talking about it, they wouldn't have a chance to even break even. Market saturation -- even from "being mysterious" was part of the game production.

Celebrity is a real problem for indie-developers today. Press cover games based on personalities (and successful games in the past). If Miyamoto made (insert-another-crappy-indie-metroidvania-here) today, press would explode about it, and probably praise him for "experimenting" or whatever when dozens of them are made by indies every month and there is no press response.

Solution: We need to form an indie-hive spokesperson who "singlehandedly" is responsible for all indie-games published, and spends 50 hours a week doing youtube talks, attending conferences and talking to the press.

[gimymblert]

A report have shown press have no coverage of indie except if they are already popular, can't find the source again ...

[quantumpotato]

A report have shown press have no coverage of indie except if they are already popular, can't find the source again ...

Would you like to be the spokesperson for us all?

[eyeliner]

7 million?! How did he manage to raise that cash?

[s0]

Indie fund + he also pumped all of his money from braid into the witness apparently