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[Fallsburg]

So, the eyes were a bit too close and a touch too small, but I think the biggest thing throwing me is the lack of eyebrows.

[Derek]

[EDIT] That's why I kind of liked the cross-eyed version

I liked it, too (obviously)... but I was getting too many complaints about it. The range for what's acceptable for a (pretty) female face is much narrower than a male.

[gimymblert]

I'm not sure I would "like" a male version of this either, it's more that it send cue for "unhealthy" for some reason, there is something wrong in the face gestalt! IMHO

Kind of like uncanny valley

[Schoq]

I think what everyone's trying to say but in less embarrassing words is "not anime enough"

(I like it but the entire model looks a bit blobby/subdivided)

The unattractive trait is mainly the narrow eyes I guess.

[Derek]

I'm not sure I would "like" a male version of this either, it's more that it send cue for "unhealthy" for some reason, there is something wrong in the face gestalt! IMHO

Kind of like uncanny valley

Fair enough - what about the new one (which is what I'm most interested in right now)?

[moi]

little defects make girls cuter. And I'm a bit fed up of the all-anime-all-the-time culture

[gimymblert]

I'm not sure I would "like" a male version of this either, it's more that it send cue for "unhealthy" for some reason, there is something wrong in the face gestalt! IMHO

Kind of like uncanny valley

Fair enough - what about the new one (which is what I'm most interested in right now)?

I'm investigating the matter, notice I changed my stance from eye to gestalt, I think it's more about the volume, I'm dusting my tablet to see if some slight shadow might help. It's not about the "pretty".

[Derek]

Yeah fuck it, I'm going to leave it as the original. I don't have the time or inclination.

(Still happy to hear your thoughts and see your edits, though, Gimmy. I'll just keep them for next time.)

[gimymblert]

I had just added some very slight shadow on the original (not the big eyes version) to underline some facial muscle, it's subtle, not sure if it really solve the problem, in my eyes there is a huge difference as it has more expression, the former version look like there was no real muscle. It's very rough.

Opinion?

edit: it's mostly the nasolabial fold and some crease around the eyes.

edit 2:
Some more reference





EDIT
There is also some things with the eyes in that the eye shape is not fully claim by the globe, the external corner is left unnaturally filled, that is eyelids don't actually cover eyes, it's too deep in.

A hack to "fill" the eye socket better and something to focus the eye so it's more natural : P

edit
I left a lot of minor nitpick where the volume has some weird pinch too. I would say that her facial feature also make sense from a pure aquatic creature sense, we would suspect her face to have this uncanny "kappa like" smoothness with beak like mouth.
However Maybe a post on polycount would give you better accurate advice with better paint over.

BONUS ROUND JWKV edit!

[:^)]

i'm diggin the right one, that is, the original.
the detail you've added kind of detracts from her youthful curiosity.

I also thought there was something off with the face at first.
But I think that's a good thing. She's not human. It's alright.
And if it were to be used in say... a game (hint hint Derek) you would eventually grow accustomed to the slight oddness and get attached to it and stuff like a good little human normally does.

[gimymblert]

Yeah I came at the same conclusion when I was editing, it is also slighty reminiscent of kappa, so it kinda grew in me other time because ultimately it makes kinda sense with the theme.

However I hope Derek still get something out of it, and even if we keep the old one, there should be way to keep youthful tone with correct facial muscle (I should have take young people as an image ref).

If it's a game I hope they take hint from the zora mask's movement in majora's mask

[Derek]

It's tough, because I want to make her look interesting and merperson-like without falling back on it as a crutch. Hard to know where that line should be drawn. And I don't think I will know for sure until I've been modeling for quite awhile longer and revisit this with fresh eyes.

I'll try posting it on Polycount in the meantime, like Gimmy suggested.

Gimmy, thanks for your advice/edits, too. The edits are pretty subtle, but I think I can see what you're getting at!

[gimymblert]

They had to be subtle to not do beautifcation, nor draw attention on execution. So I can show what was truly essential and impacting, and have a holistic feel that give a sense of gestalt instead of focusing on details.

[moi]

it seems the eyes lack a bit volume or sthg

[stickadtroja]

i think that your original was good but you need to finish it. right now there is way to little defenition, espacially around the eyes. with defenition i mean sharp wrinkles and skin folds. for example she has no eyelids. but i like the basic proportions and shapes.

[PompiPompi]

Men's ugliness is a lot more versatile than women's beauty. 

[Geti]

Did an edit in a break today, from some aquaria art I found on the googles.

Comparison gif with ref:


I made the face a little more planes and angles, added detail to the eyes, made the brow line heavier and more pronounced to make it look a little less wtf without adding actual eyebrows in, repainted the hair to match the ref, and added some skin detail. I also pushed the nose down a bit, and tried to keep the wide mouth thing you've got going.

While I agree about beautification in female art being dumb, I think the hair and face need quite a bit of work to be recognisable as the aquaria protagonist. Putting some texture in there (not necessarily as chunky as I've done) would help get some micro scale detail in there, at the moment she's super flat.

Tried to get an intermediate between the cartoon concept and what you have. I wanted to push her eyes down more and blow up her ears a little, but didn't want to spend too much time on it, so take it or leave it I guess.

[surt]

Am I the only one who sees Naija DeGeneres?
I dig it though, she is a fish after all.

[gimymblert]

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1795465
here is the polycount thread in case people are interested in the feedback that may come.

edit:
Speaking of aesthetics I see his sculpt a bit like this (exagerated part intended to draw attention)



The right side is more like I would see the profile while sticking to the intention.

Good thing i dust up my tablet!

Edit:
Boyish alien naija for fun

[JOBA]

Playing around with graphics engine I threw together in few evenings.