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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignThat was a bad idea
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Cobralad
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« on: September 07, 2015, 03:57:13 AM »

So instead of people pitching good design ideas i would like to see them post deliberately bad ones.
There is too much "good idea" stuff on internets anyway, maybe documenting bad stuff would give better understanding of people preferences.
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Adinimys
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 04:10:44 AM »

Wow, I love the idea of this thread  Smiley

Never having finished a game isn't giving me enough perspective about my ideas so I couldn't had anything there but I'm looking forward to see what bad ideas you had  Tongue
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oahda
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 04:11:54 AM »

Most games ever released, probably.
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 04:21:34 AM »

A game with perfect "realistic" AI

Seems like a cool idea until u realize that multiplayer games are already a thing
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Pfotegeist
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 04:57:41 AM »

Writing the story about an honest to reality game, a game based on someone else's life without written consent, or a major comic book company that won't give you artistic license.
Designing content for a simulation that isn't just a simulation. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2150/the_designers_notebook_the_.php
Any idea that you plan to sell, selling an idea that you love after you just got started on it, getting hired by contract to continue working on what you were already doing but with fewer rights.
Trying to understand game design by studying and tweaking a game engine design.
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 07:45:50 AM »


i disagree fundamentally with this article and im glad this attitude isnt accepted as gospel anymore (the way it seemed to be a few years ago)

edit: actually i don't just disagree with this article, this article is wrong. the writer's contention that "no one likes this" (which btw is an argumentum ad populum) is extremely easy to empirically disprove. minecraft is the obvious recent example, but there are lots of other "bottom up" sim-type games that are and have been popular.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 07:55:35 AM by Silbereisen » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 08:12:19 AM »

I made a shmup prototype where you had three weapon slots as such
slot-
SHIP-slot-
slot-
and four different weapons (spread, rapid, missile, boomerang) with any combination possible and there was a button to cycle them.
unsalvageable mess.

I had fun making like all the graphics for it though, including title screen and bosses.
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 09:37:44 AM »

A game with perfect "realistic" AI

Seems like a cool idea until u realize that multiplayer games are already a thing
Unless you have shit internet. Like I do at the moment. And singleplayer campaigns and shit.

Anyway, for shooter games, I remember reading that some developer had some really smart AI that would flank and shit, but gave the players the impression the AI cheated and shit, so they made it dumber. I think what developers should aim is not quite dumbing down, but making the AI decisions more telegraphed, where the player may have a clue what set of actions it is gonna take. Radio chatter, more non verbalstuff like have one ai dude pointing with his hadn where their quad is gonna move, whatever.

Honestly I miss smart AI on RTS games. Starcraft 2 was such a huge letdown, only focusing on wave configurations rather than actual tactics. Replaying the first starcraft, you could see the AI being total dick, doing some infantry drops on undefended high ground areas where you could barely counteratack, using zerg abilities to its fullest (plague when having sufficient units clumped, spawn broodlings on loads of mechanical units), etc. It was frustrating at times, but it gave a greater satisfaction when you beat it, since it was not just a matter of massing troops, but outmaneuvering its dickishness.

I was going to post a rant about "Ages of", but I cant quite get the right mind to be objective at the moment without going more into a review rather than dsign features discussion. I have played to many RTS recently.
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 09:44:37 AM »


i disagree fundamentally with this article and im glad this attitude isnt accepted as gospel anymore (the way it seemed to be a few years ago)

edit: actually i don't just disagree with this article, this article is wrong. the writer's contention that "no one likes this" (which btw is an argumentum ad populum) is extremely easy to empirically disprove. minecraft is the obvious recent example, but there are lots of other "bottom up" sim-type games that are and have been popular.

Its an ancient article tbf. But there is a merit to it, where new features added on top have to relate in a way to the base game and not play against its strenghts. You can see the counterpoints to your example by playing Towns, Starbound, and even Minecraft itself with its npcs and other clutter that is often discarded by mods.
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Pfotegeist
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 09:56:45 AM »

I dug it up through this one which is only 8 years old http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130542/game_design_cognition_the_.php perhaps the title is misleading
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2015, 09:59:51 AM »

@alevice: well yeah but the article is claiming that bottom up design is categorically bad game design and i was disputing this. actually, sim city is probably an even better example than minecraft. it started from the theme and is mechanically basically a cellular automaton with some "gamey" bells + whistles attached. yet it's one of the best & most influential games ever made.

i guess the reason i reacted so strongly is that this is probably one of the origins of the game design dogma that it's bad to make "complex" games with simulation elements because supposedly "no one likes them". that assertion has been thankfully proven wrong now that minecraft and its derivatives, crusader kings 2, farming simulator etc are fairly big commercial successes.

i mean in the end it sucks that game devs have to justify making what they make via potential commercial appeal but this IS a money driven entertainment industry.
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2015, 10:00:08 AM »

I dug it up through this one which is only 8 years old http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130542/game_design_cognition_the_.php perhaps the title is misleading

oh yeah i saw that one as well. it's better.
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2015, 11:00:28 AM »

Open world sokoban (OWS). Once a puzzle is solved there is no gain in solving it again, so open world will have you go through the same puzzle every time you have to backtrack to a previous location.

I've seen a few incarnations of the OWS problem in modern games. Any game that has puzzle elements will have a hard time with open world. Fez and Thief (deadly shadows and new Thief) come to mind. These games are not 100% puzzle, of course, these games have platforming, action, story exposition etc. But the puzzle elements are there and the open world is, at best, like that jigsaw puzzle piece that looks like it belongs there but you have to force it in and the corners of the paper start to peel off.

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« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2015, 11:05:27 AM »

I made a shmup prototype where you had three weapon slots as such
slot-
SHIP-slot-
slot-
and four different weapons (spread, rapid, missile, boomerang) with any combination possible and there was a button to cycle them.
unsalvageable mess.

I had fun making like all the graphics for it though, including title screen and bosses.

Sounds like one of the streetpass minigames on the 3DS.
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« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2015, 11:22:41 AM »

Video pls. I refuse to believe it can be done well.

I have a couple other pretty bad ideas but I want to actually try them first before telling anyone!
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2015, 11:55:23 AM »



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Schoq
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« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2015, 05:39:15 PM »

holy shit there are so many random uncanny likenesses D:
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« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2015, 05:45:53 PM »

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news m8.

A bad idea I once had was to reprogram Minecraft in pure C++ so that it would run more smoothly.
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« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2015, 06:09:49 PM »

serious question: how can u tell if your own game is good?

because i definitely can't. i don't have opinions on my own games
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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2015, 06:16:13 PM »

I have a couple of friends who are extremely critical of everything, and I consider my game good if it only gets minor criticism from them. Otherwise, I have no idea.
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