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[EasterlyArt]

Little by little I'm piecing together an idea for a RPG, mostly inspired by old JRPGs like Earthbound, Final Fantasy  (insert number under seven here), Chrono Trigger, etc. I'll emit my research has been relatively minimal, but I've at least scratched the surface of getting things started with a solid theme and doing what I can to avoid some basic pitfalls that end up hurting gameplay. 



Though I'm still novice as hell, and am trying to learn more about what makes RPGs good and bad. What have been the tropes and what have been the innovations.

So what do you feel makes or breaks a RPG/JRPG?
 

[KaiTheSpy]

One of my biggest issues with a lot of RPGs is the amount of random battles. If it's too high, I just want to stop playing.

[beetleking22]

The typical God story.. Typical anime character.. Not hating anime but Jrpg with unusual art style would be more interesting..

[EasterlyArt]

character interactions make the genre for me. if the characters are 1D and super boring then im gonna just stop playing

I can't agree more with this. I can say that my experience with Final Fantasy 7 was exponentially better because of my interactions with other characters, or at least how they were written to make the engagement less about Cloud, and more about myself talking to them. I also feel like NPCs add an extra level of depth when they're not just decoration.

One of my biggest issues with a lot of RPGs is the amount of random battles. If it's too high, I just want to stop playing.

That is a huge killer for me! I'm not sure if it qualifies, but Pokemon to me was a big culprit of this with low level Pokemon that spawned like the plague.

The typical God story.. Typical anime character.. Not hating anime but Jrpg with unusual art style would be more interesting..

The over use of anime themes, whether story or visuals, can be irritating over time. This is especially true when looking at a RPG/JRPG and it looks exactly like another RPG/JRPG at first glance. No originality, even if they armor is kind of different. On the note of unusual art style, I feel Earthbound (or Mother series in general) benefits from this. It's sort of cartoon-like style, or more kiddish-manga style is still a breath of fresh air. Even Pokemon hasn't truly fallen victim to the hyper-anime style, but I'm sure that is debatable.

[Terrytheplatypus]

One of my biggest issues with a lot of RPGs is the amount of random battles. If it's too high, I just want to stop playing.

this
though if the random battles are compelling for some reason, that makes the battles more interesting and less irritating. undertale had an element of discovery with the random battles, Hylics and Gingiva both had really awesome animations for the battles, combined with systems where all status changes have a clear and meaningful effect, and one of the best things about Hylics is that it has a specific way so you can increase your max hp when you die.

[gimymblert]

all problems --> pacing

[Magurp244]

I'd probably say a compelling story and gameplay mechanics, though the mixtures of each and their implementation can vary. Random Battles can certainly be a buzz kill, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest tackled that differently by showing all the monsters on the screen and allowing the player to choose whether they wanted to engage them or not.

Paladin's Quest had bright pastel colors, and interesting takes on interfaces and mechanics, and a pretty good story as well. There's also Sweet Home, Ultima 4, Yumi Nikki, etc. Each with their own unique methods, quirks, and approaches.

[P-Flute]

My mushy, totally subjective curveball: In any genre, but especially something as lore/text/dialogue heavy as an RPG, I really think the game (and author) needs to be self aware and/or earnest to some degree these days.

That doesn't mean you have to go breaking the fourth wall in every game. Just, if a game is your bog standard end-of-the-world big bad collect the macguffin schlock AND it carries itself like it's going to be a game changer with an amazing story (mostly by shoving lots of tired exposition down the player's gullet) then it's already lost me.

If you're determined to do a by the numbers'epic' RPG then switch it up in places or don't lean on your story beats heavily.

If you don't have a good writer, then make it about something you can write meaningfully/earnestly about even if the words come out subpar.

If you can't or don't want to write earnestly or well, then don't lean on your script. Make it more of a dressing to the experience of playing your game.

Anyway that's my opinionated RPG rant, man. I hope it helps?

all problems --> pacing

    

The typical God story.. Typical anime character.. Not hating anime but Jrpg with unusual art style would be more interesting..

  It goes back to the rant; You throw a party of spunky young big-eyed cliches at me and then write dialogue that makes it sound like you've never even seen the definition of 'trope', game's getting uninstalled.

[Jordgubben]

I did an experiment a year ago. I dug up all my old PS1 RPGs and played the first 10 minutes (with a stop-watch). A pattern quikly. A pattern quickly emerged. The "real classics" (=my personal favourites ) let you sample all core elements of the game (theme, story, exploration, logistics and combat) in those first minutes.

Suikoden II should have an extra honourable mention here. There are only a few sentences of dialogue before the game lets you explore (a very limited area) freely. I was actually a bit surprised to find SII to give me control so early, since it's a very linear game.

(TLDR: Do not, under any circumstances what so ever, front load your story telling.)

[s0]

annoying things about JRPGs

1. overlong intros
2. wordy but uninteresting dialog (i don't necesarily mean exposition)
3. overreliance on narrative tropes that already got old in the 90s. that includes character archetypes, settings, themes, plots etc
4. random encounters with zero story relevance
5. random encounters in general
6. more generally, insistence on using ancient game mechanics
7. content padding

so yeah, in short: JRPGs have grown stale since the late 90s. really the best way to make a jrpg these days is to look outside the genre for inspiration. and maybe also look outside of videogames.

[ProgramGamer]

Basically be Undertale.

[s0]

Yes

[P-Flute]

Basically be Undertale.

It helps

[battlerager]

Basically be Undertale.

Reminds me of advice along the lines of "1. Be attractive. 2. Don't be unattractive." Or that "Draw the rest of the damn owl" image, haha.

I do think the biggest problems are trite, cliched plotlines and character tropes, and boring moment-to-moment gameplay that gets reallllly stretched out.

Much like Undertale did (Bullet Hell, as I'm told) or how we're doing with Creepy Castle (Wario Ware-style micro games), find fun moment-to-moment gameplay in other genres, find story inspiration outside of games and don't try to stretch things out.

[s0]

one great thing about undertale is that the random encounters are part of the story. the monsters are all unique characters (SPOILER: if you choose to kill a monster it stops spawning forever) and the battles are like interactive dialog sequences. it helps that the bullet hell stuff is pretty fun too. and even that has narrative importance. a monster's attack patterns often tell you something about the monster's personality.

welp tbf neither of those things are totally new: shin megami tensei did the social battle system and dragon quest did the "characterization through attacks" thing but undertale expands on them greatly.

[oahda]

May I take it one step further and say "being an RPG breaks a game"?

[battlerager]

May I take it one step further and say "being an RPG breaks a game"?

Depends on how you define "RPG". I'd almost agree if you describe your moment-to-moment gameplay as "RPG". To me, RPG wors best as a sort of narrative frame and progression system.

[s0]

May I take it one step further and say "being an RPG breaks a game"?

dum

megadum

[DangerMomentum]

May I take it one step further and say "being an RPG breaks a game"?

Get your reflexes out of my spreadsheet simulator. Both extremes are healthy and appeal to different people. Echoing the random battle sentiment, lack of or a poorly paced difficulty curve will kill an RPG, especially if the only way forward is grinding. I really like the SMT "build your party to exploit weakness" style of roadblock, because it requires changing your strategy. When you can't advance with the correct strategy because your numbers are too small? That's what really sucks.

[Jordgubben]

annoying things about JRPGs

... long list ...

so yeah, in short: JRPGs have grown stale since the late 90s. really the best way to make a jrpg these days is to look outside the genre for inspiration. and maybe also look outside of videogames.

So the big life advice is: If you do not like JRPGs they way they used to be, then don't make them that way

It's sad that a whole genre has been defined by it's worst ilk and traits. Take something like Koudelkas redemption goth theme and mix it with Rivieras exploration and combat mechanics. There is most likely a fine new game there hidden in there.