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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperTechnical (Moderator: ThemsAllTook)Is Clickteam Fusion 2.5 viable?
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Noogai03
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« on: December 27, 2015, 04:48:49 AM »

Hey guys! I picked up Clickteam Fusion 2.5 for 9 quid in the steam sales (the deal is on until Jan 4th and it's 85% off!) and I'm curious about learning to make games in it - all the programming I've done in the past has fallen flat because I've tried to reinvent the wheel everywhere, so I thought I might give something very visual and built-in a try.
Does anyone here who uses it have any tips for getting started? It has a very unusal development process and I'm floundering a little!

The grid system seems very unwieldy - for example I was messing around with a small particle system in which I created 10 particles in a loop each frame and then randomised their velocities - but because I was unable to specify which particles I was changing the program continuously randomised the velocities of all the particles instead...

Is it even a good system to develop games with? I know Hempuli has made amazing things with it (or rather MMF2, which seems even harder to use) and I've played Knytt, Nightsky etc but I haven't the foggiest how they both did it  Crazy

Do people develop their own editors or use the in-game one?

I tried Game Maker, and I loved some features of it but absolutely hated the awful room editor and laggy interface... Should I stick with traditional frameworks like Haxe and XNA (what I have previously used) or is it possible to get over the oddities?
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Polly
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 05:16:23 AM »

Should I stick with traditional frameworks like Haxe and XNA (what I have previously used) or is it possible to get over the oddities?

You should use whatever works best for you. For some that's something like Game Maker ( Hotline Miami / Spelunky ), for others that's something like C++ ( Braid / Cave Story ).
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Tokinsom
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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 06:08:44 AM »

I used Clickteam software from the early 90's Klik 'n Play up until Multimedia Fusion 2, and have messed around with Fusion 2.5 a bit recently.

In a nutshell, Fusion 2.5 is just a super duper beefed up version of Klik 'n Play from 1994 and you can expect at least a year of tinkering to really find its true potential what with all the strange workarounds and odd design choices and stuff.

Fusion 3 (working title) is Clickteam's first truly new engine since then, and is being revealed fall 2016. You're better of waiting until then and maybe using Construct 2 in the meantime to get familiar with this sort of engine. For the record, Construct 3 is most likely coming out next year as well.

If you're adamant about using Fusion 2.5, then you'll pretty much have to learn how to build your own editors to dynamically load levels and such in one frame, since objects/events are tied to individual frames...and you'll have to use a large number of sketchy 3rd party plugins. Also, learn to use the event list editor...that checkbox system is what nightmares are made of.

Yes Hempuli, Nifflas, and many others have made amazing games in MMF, but that was after using it for about 10 years.

So uh..good luck I guess Smiley
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 06:25:27 AM by Tokinsom » Logged

b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2015, 06:35:31 AM »

yes it's a viable and good system to develop games in it. I started using it to prototype ideas in a fast way.
Inbuilt movements + drag sprites in screen, easy parallax made it extremely fast.
Custom engine ( non using inbuilt movements  PMO and physics) is where fusion shines for making a solid game.

there's a lot of tutorial available in the clickteam main forum. (you'll need archeology skill to find some hidden gems)

list of recommended game made with this engine:
-Freedom Planet
-Wings of Vi
-Not a hero
-Mayhem triple
-Tick Tock Isle
-Concrete Jungle
-A fistful of gun
-Odallus


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Noogai03
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2015, 07:40:46 AM »

Thanks folks! I'll do some digging! I'm beginning to think it might have been a bad idea to buy it aha  WTF
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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 05:09:32 AM »

Can you make games with it? Yes

Can they be entertaining? Yes

Should you use that tool? That's up to you. Personally, I think that there are a lot of variables, but here are some most usual configurations:

You can do programming (or are willing to learn) and want to make a game for desktops / mobiles: any programming language + relevant libs / Unity / Unreal (depends on your game and your skills)

You can't do programming and want to make a game for desktops: game maker, construct 2, rpg makers, clickteam products - whatever works for you.

You can't do programming and want to make a game for mobiles: your best option would be to learn programming, because exporters for mobile platforms with tools such as the ones mentioned above, are very expensive. To the point I'd call them a ripoff.
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johanbrodd
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2016, 08:18:12 PM »

Go for Fusion 2.5! It's definitely a rather simple tool to use, and I've been using a lot of their products since 1994 when K&P got released. Lots of extensions to create things as Mode7 games, load in XM files for music, perspective / warp the display. The onboard graphic editor kinda sucks, but there is always other tools.
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2016, 11:52:08 AM »

Yes, it's very viable, many products made with it.

As others have said you should use what works best for you. I believe the hardest part is finishing something with any set of tools.

It might be inspiring to look over the huge list of games that used Fusion. You may recognize a few of them.
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negview
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2016, 11:00:16 AM »

sorry for reviving an old thread but seeing as the Steam summer sale just ended, a few people might still find this. (that's how I found it.) if you're going to use clickteam, use the common framework 2.5 for it. it'll make your life much easier and it fixes at least most of the common problems you would've run into with it: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By3-o_p43zqscTJuUlRYTWRnajQ you have to compile logger.mfa with clickteam, but after that, you can run the framework from within clickteam. make sure you extract the framework .zip archive to its own directory.
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voidSkipper
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2016, 08:40:35 PM »

Like a lot of other people I got Clickteam "The Games Factory" out of a magazine as a kid, and later got Multimedia Fusion.

My personal belief is that they're great for developing an interest in game development, because you can get something that moves and is playable very quickly. If you're happy to use inbuilt movement patterns and the like, you can put together a platformer in no time at all. It lets you get straight into level design and the like, so it's very satisfying, especially if you're very young and have a short attention span. With the latest MMF, you can even export your games to Smartphone right off the bat, which is sure to get the kind of praise from parents that really keeps kids eyes bright for this hobby.

However, making serious games with Clickteam products requires a huge amount of effort and arcane knowledge. You need a lot of experience with the program to force it to do more serious things. Even something as simple as making your own movement system ("static engine") becomes quite kludgy.

I think that if you get to the point where you're developing serious games (eg, with a team and/or for publishing), it might be counteruintuitive to try and bend Clickteam products to your will to do so. In most development environments, most of the skills you learn can be transferred over to other languages and platforms, but KNP/TGF/MMF are sort of their own little school of black magic. You may find yourself so exclusively comfortable with the software that you end up reluctant to use more appropriate platforms when applicable, and hence end up limiting your output.

I know some people who were using Clickteam products when I first got one at 11, and are still using them now. I'm 25. They definitely have not progressed as far in terms of quality and ingenuity of output as other friends who branched out earlier.

All that said - if your goal is making a game, use whatever platform, library and/or tools you believe will realise that goal as efficiently and accurately as possible.
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