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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessMonitize social media. Your thoughts?
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Wacompen
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« on: January 15, 2016, 02:37:10 PM »

San Francisco's becoming divided between people who live in tents and wealthy techies who are afraid they might be moving into a tent in the near future if their company goes under. I've seen a lot of articles about populating the internet with tip buttons which support non profits and charities. Trouble is no one's interested in that enough to sign up because no one gets a taste of it.
Here's how things need to work, there's a tip button on every Instagram post, you can (like) (give $0.01) (give $0.05) (give$0.10) it's like the hat that a musician puts out when they perform. Everyone can get some money from social media. Thing is, if they want to start getting money for their posts, they need to input their pay pal (or what ever) info and then they start seeing the donation buttons and can decided to support their favorite poster.
For Posting blog articles on Facebook, a donation of $0.05: $0.01 goes to the person who posted on facebook and $0.04 goes to the creator of the article.
This would support Artist on all platforms because the tip profit would trickle from media to the original source.
I'm sure this idea has been thrown around before but I think a facilitator needs to be in place to put money back into the lower and middle classes. Technology continues to eliminate jobs and the bay area is a view of the future.
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Schoq
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2016, 03:54:50 PM »

have you heard about this invention called taxes
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Geoff Moore
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2016, 04:51:04 AM »

where is the tip button for Schoq's post
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Wacompen
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2016, 07:54:30 PM »

I know the idea of money's a joke until you actually start trying to live as an indie dev. When you're worried about how you're going to pay the next months rent, you start thinking things like "hmm, maybe it would be nice if artist's got paid for their work".

The question is, would you give a penny in place of every (like) you give on Instagram or Facebook? if so, then 1,000 likes a day on posts equals $10.00 which turns out to be $300.00 a month. That kind of money being redirected into the economy can really help improve the wealth gap. Waaagh!
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 06:41:06 AM »

I think about this very often and I've come to the personal conclusion that I would hate social media being monetized.

There are tons of ways to make money; there are ways to make money with the help of twitter, but making money directly from twitter is not present nor something I desire.

I would much rather be redirected to another site that is clearly trying to get my money, then have to sift through 100's of tweets that are thinly veiled attempts at getting my money.

If you want to make money, do something worth making money. Don't beg for it, earn it.

I think I come off as a dick in the post, but that's just my opinion towards the idea. Shrug
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Wacompen
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2016, 01:48:09 PM »

I think about this very often and I've come to the personal conclusion that I would hate social media being monetized.

There are tons of ways to make money; there are ways to make money with the help of twitter, but making money directly from twitter is not present nor something I desire.

I would much rather be redirected to another site that is clearly trying to get my money, then have to sift through 100's of tweets that are thinly veiled attempts at getting my money.

If you want to make money, do something worth making money. Don't beg for it, earn it.

I think I come off as a dick in the post, but that's just my opinion towards the idea. Shrug

I agree that people shouldn't expect money for doing nothing, but the thing is people are doing things, Writing, taking photos, creating music, painting pictures, making games. All of which gets uploaded to the internet with zero compensation except a few thumbs up. Were quickly moving into a world where everyone expects entertainment and art to be free but it can't be completely free because the artist have to work crap jobs to pay the rent. and in reality, when anyone talks about making money with their work on the internet it always comes down to advertising. Think about how all social media makes money, ads ads ads. This idea would channel money directly into the creators hands and if the social media outlet wanted a percent, that could stop them from having to resort to posting ads everywhere. When you see a performer playing guitar on the sidewalk with a tip jar, do you tell them they should figure out a way to make money differently? imagine if street performers had to be sponsored. The person has to play guitar wearing a big Pepsi cutout sign.  WTF
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RockyKev
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2016, 10:28:31 PM »

For the sake of this conversation - there are two camps.

Camp #1 - artists.
Camp #2 - businesspeople.

I'm totally going to upset people - so I want to apologize on behalf of this. I'm totally open for discussion.

I used to be an artist - Camp #1. I worked at a restaurant and taught art classes to make money so I can do art on the weekends. I'm familiar with perspective. Then I threw the brush away (really, the wacom tablet), and took a 9-5. I realized I was good at programming, which lead to web developer, which lead to online marketing. Now i'm in Camp #2.

From my experience being in Camp #1 - artists can be pretty selfish. Let me unpack that, so you're not ready to tar and feather me. They create something that they want, and expect people to pay for it. Artists 'demand' money for their work. "I spent months making this, pay me. I worked hard. I deserve better!" No one asked for it. That's selfish.

Then they whip out a tip jar and hope to find validation in what they're doing.

Now in Camp #2 - the question becomes, "How can I make money? What opportunities are there that can turn into a revenue stream?" Businesspeople look for questions that people want solved, 'scratches' that they want 'itched'. They create a solution, and charge a price for it.

Businesspeople charge for their solutions. Their business lives or dies based on how good it is.

I'm aware that these are gross exaggerations. Some business folks are snake-oil-salesmen. Some artists actually make art that matters (like painters, graphic designers and photographers)

As a game dev- you need to plant yourself in both camps. Turn your art into something that people actually want and are excited to pay for. Get rid of the tip jar, and make money by solving problems by finding opportunities. Even Michelangelo got paid.
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Wacompen
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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2016, 06:13:13 PM »

For the sake of this conversation - there are two camps.

Camp #1 - artists.
Camp #2 - businesspeople.

I'm totally going to upset people - so I want to apologize on behalf of this. I'm totally open for discussion.

I used to be an artist - Camp #1. I worked at a restaurant and taught art classes to make money so I can do art on the weekends. I'm familiar with perspective. Then I threw the brush away (really, the wacom tablet), and took a 9-5. I realized I was good at programming, which lead to web developer, which lead to online marketing. Now i'm in Camp #2.

From my experience being in Camp #1 - artists can be pretty selfish. Let me unpack that, so you're not ready to tar and feather me. They create something that they want, and expect people to pay for it. Artists 'demand' money for their work. "I spent months making this, pay me. I worked hard. I deserve better!" No one asked for it. That's selfish.

Then they whip out a tip jar and hope to find validation in what they're doing.

Now in Camp #2 - the question becomes, "How can I make money? What opportunities are there that can turn into a revenue stream?" Businesspeople look for questions that people want solved, 'scratches' that they want 'itched'. They create a solution, and charge a price for it.

Businesspeople charge for their solutions. Their business lives or dies based on how good it is.

I'm aware that these are gross exaggerations. Some business folks are snake-oil-salesmen. Some artists actually make art that matters (like painters, graphic designers and photographers)

As a game dev- you need to plant yourself in both camps. Turn your art into something that people actually want and are excited to pay for. Get rid of the tip jar, and make money by solving problems by finding opportunities. Even Michelangelo got paid.

The modern era has to be understood from a new perspective. The realm of game developer is quickly moving in the direction of all other media on the internet (We want it for free). If you make us pay, we'll figure a way to get it for free just to spite you. If you make it for free but ask for a possible contribution for what we like, we might be interested in supporting you. Here are the solutions to making money in this media age: 1. ADVERTISING!! the fact that advertisements have began to completely consume the internet (see last season of south park) hints at the fact that people have run out of ideas as to how to make an honest living with entertainment on the internet. Since advertising is based purely on audience view amount, this means it's in your best interest to create quantity over quality. Who's making the most money with indie games? YouTube Streamers, simply because they have a tiny production/audience turn around. 2. In app purchases (uggg Huh? Mock Anger) does anyone like those things? they're essentially the same principle as the tip jar except they stop you mid session and say "HEY, PAY US MONEY OR ELSE!". Do you have any other ideas about making money from media on the internet? because painters, film makers, musicians, and game developers aren't making enough to compete against the marketing of Candy Crush or the kardashian game. When a musician plays guitar on the sidewalk and puts out a tip hat, do you tell him "why don't you figure out a way to make real money, like writing jingles for McDonalds commercials". I personally drop the guy a buck because he's NOT! begging for money, he's politely asking for support of his services so there's still someone in the wold playing music which isn't lucrative main stream. 
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oldblood
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 06:17:16 AM »

Wacompen, the idea you're talking about isn't a terrible one but has a pretty serious flaw in it. More so, than the taxes that Schoq already pointed out in regards to transactions...

Someone has to move that money around, and to move the money around, they're going to charge a fee. Even if you could guarantee that you're business idea would generate millions (ideally billions) of micro-transactions- they're still going to probably need to charge you a few pennies every single time someone clicks. They're not going to charge you 3/10ths of 1 cent to move that 1 cent.

So to make it worth it, you're really needing to begin about 10-25x higher than your current numbers to be able to make it kind of work. As another person already pointed out, it would still take incredibly high numbers of supporters to be able to turn those small numbers into something livable, and then... we're back to taxes and things may even get more complicated with different countries processing things like this differently.

All that to say I like your train of thought, but there really isn't a good way to accomplish what you're talking about. The odds are better that you could find a handful of people to provide you X dollars per month than trying to convince tens of thousands of people to give you pennies. Patreon seems to have that niche' covered atm.

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Wacompen
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2016, 06:54:15 PM »


oldblood

In my mind these are completely solvable problems. Bitcoin is on the right track to handle micro transactions, or someone like PayPal could offer a type of token which could break down one penny or something along those lines. In terms of profit, I don't really post much on social media, sometimes I post around 4 photos a day each get me around 25 likes. Just for me, that 100 likes, if each equals 1 cent, that's $1 a day, $30 a month. $30 a month can pay for my Netflix, Hulu, and more stuff.

My goal isn't actually to become a social media professional. I believe it could help a lot of the economy. When money starts circulating, everyone benefits. All those people making money from posting on social media now have extra money to buy products from others like expensive games. I'm a solo indie dev and I'm selling my game on Steam and generating way more income than I would with social media posts but it feels unstable in this climate.

Imagine when you begin development on your indie game. You create a twitter, facebook, Tumbler, Dev log on Tig, You update your followers with details about your game and each source generates you some income. All that can really help out in the bigger picture. And it's nice to be able to quickly tip your own friends a few cents here and there when they do an awesome post.
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oldblood
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 06:12:13 AM »

In my mind these are completely solvable problems. Bitcoin is on the right track to handle micro transactions, or someone like PayPal could offer a type of token which could break down one penny or something along those lines.

So by "completely solvable" you mean a company like PayPal would need to create a way to split a penny into fractions of a penny and start cutting their payments by 10-20x what they currently get so that someone can give their friend a penny? And of the penny, you only get a fraction of that penny because of the transaction fee, and then of that fraction, you will need to be taxed... So your penny is now about 3/10ths of a penny assuming that PayPal or other provider is willing to lose money everytime they move your penny around. I won't respond to the Bitcoin thing as so a tiny fraction of the population even uses it and its the most unstable currency ever created in the history of the world.

...sometimes I post around 4 photos a day each get me around 25 likes. Just for me, that 100 likes, if each equals 1 cent, that's $1 a day, $30 a month. $30 a month can pay for my Netflix, Hulu, and more stuff.

This is exactly my point. THIS is why this won't ever be a thing. This doesn't solve anything, meaning no company is going to destroy all their profitability and take a fraction of a cent so that people can start getting free Netflix or Hulu. This isn't a viable business model by any stretch of the imagination because this model could never raise enough to actually "support" someone.

Also, you can't measure your current likes to determine how much you'd make every day. I like thousands of things on social media every week. If I had to pay for that, I'd like about 99% less than what I currently do. If you get 100 likes a day, you would realistically get a fraction of that everyday. Then take out cuts to PayPal & Taxes and you've made a few pennies today (if you were really active).

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, as I said- I don't think the "idea" is bad, but in the real world it literally can't work. It's absolutely laden with serious flaws. If you really do feel this is "completely solvable", then go solve it. You seem to be posting because you were wondering what others thought but you don't seem to want to hear any feedback...
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Wacompen
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 06:14:44 PM »

Yeah, I was actually looking for constructive feedback. There's always a million reasons why someone thinks something wouldn't work. I posted this idea on Reddit and check out how angry this guy got trying to claim the idea wouldn't work for an entirely different reason https://www.reddit.com/r/startups/comments/414khz/social_media_monetization/

I'm not really sure why this seems to generate such a negative response but I'm sure the creators of Kickstarter and Patrion got a ton of it before hand. The idea's pretty simple, just same principle as tipping a bartender for pouring you a beer but on the internet. Most people I know tip a bartender an entire dollar for just filling up a glass, don't people believe entertainment creators deserve a little something for investing hours of their time.
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RockyKev
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2016, 08:33:33 PM »

Wacompen - ideas are easy to challenge and debate over! Smiley

If you can create a beta products to clarify your ideas and get it to market - you can prove your point.
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Wacompen
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2016, 02:18:56 AM »

Wacompen - ideas are easy to challenge and debate over! Smiley

If you can create a beta products to clarify your ideas and get it to market - you can prove your point.

Thanks, now that's something construtive Smiley I've considered doing some mock ups, wouldn't be hard but the truth is I'm way more interested in creating games. I just released my first game on Steam and have had to spend so much time publicizing on social media without any real compensation for any of it (besides games sales but its always a gamble).

One of the other reasons this idea interests me so much is in politics they're always discussing raising the minimum wage because theoretically it would help circulate money in the economy. I have nothing against making McDonalds pay their employees more but what about the barbershop in Chinatown which charges less than $5 a haircut and can't afford to hire employees. When minimum increases, small business get screwed. This idea would be a way to circulate money into the lower class and not create laws for it. That and I live in San Francisco where people seem to be looking for new tech features constantly.     
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2016, 04:04:29 AM »

One thing that wouldn't work for me is the fact that i'll never link credit account or anything money related to my account just so i can tip people and i'd like to know how you would handle that.

have had to spend so much time publicizing on social media without any real compensation for any of it (besides games sales but its always a gamble).

there are people who are paid publicizing. i don't see what compensation you want. You're marketing your game and you want to be paid for marketing your own product?
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Wacompen
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« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 02:06:59 PM »

My thought has been, if you want to be a part of the system, meaning if you want to make money with your posts? you have to enter your account info. So people who aren't interested in participating, don't get the opportunity to make any money. That, or if something like PayPal processed the entire thing, you would only need to input your info there.

I have a friend who publishes a web comic, he releases the comic for free but has a Patrion account for supporters. On the Patrion he documents his process which is essentially what people do here or on a blog with their DevLog. My idea simplifies this  support process. Makes the commitment less intense and the transactions smaller but opens up a massive audience. DevLoging can be exhausting, I'm just saying it'd be nice to know you're getting some kind of compensation. I know a lot of people enjoy socializing on the internet but when you're in the middle of game development, it can be a real chore.

 

   
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Wacompen
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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 02:35:27 PM »

Not suggesting that TIGSource needs this, just created a couple mocks of what it could look like on TIG. Did these pretty fast just to give an example.

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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2016, 04:15:51 PM »

what's your miracle solution for handling transaction fee on pennies? You're talking as if it was as easy as just dropping some coins in a jar.

DevLoging can be exhausting, I'm just saying it'd be nice to know you're getting some kind of compensation.
If someone is watching you skateboarding, are you expecting him to give you money? You entertained him and skateboarding is exhausting.
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Wacompen
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« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2016, 04:45:07 PM »

what's your miracle solution for handling transaction fee on pennies? You're talking as if it was as easy as just dropping some coins in a jar.

DevLoging can be exhausting, I'm just saying it'd be nice to know you're getting some kind of compensation.
If someone is watching you skateboarding, are you expecting him to give you money? You entertained him and skateboarding is exhausting.

Sure, I follow a lot local skateboarders on Instagram who edit skating clips regularly. I'd like to be able to tip them and show some support because I know how the skating industry works, If you're not a superstar, you make  Hand Thumbs Down Right but I want them to keep making the videos because I like them more than the commercial stuff. 
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2016, 04:01:12 AM »

you didn't answer to my question and you're expecting something constructive.

Yeah, when you start promoting online you realize how little people pay attention. I created an automated message which is sent out to new Twitter followers on my account. I think only around 5 people have actually read it Big Laff

you don't know how to market your game and you think that you deserve compensation for devlogging or putting your stuff in the internet.

you obviously have no idea about how things works (Papyal, micro transaactions, economics, marketing).

Give realistic solutions and people will take you seriously.


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