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[Torchkas]

More male butts and less female butts. I'm okay with that. I like butts though, so I don't think we should get rid of all of them.

[JWK5]

The thing is, if women are dressed and positioned into sexually enticing compositions in nearly every popular media that includes imagery, from magazine photography, comics, etc. to movies, why the hell would a media predominantly pandering to a male audience (as video games currently are) be any different?

He's saying she's cherry picking, but I've been playing video games for almost 30 years (which suddenly makes me want to drink heavily right now) and I can just about pick any random game I've played featuring a female character and see a shining example of what she's getting at. Even games that do feature the camera low on the male or sticks the male's ass in the screen aren't doing it in a sexual manner, there's no cute little cheek swivel clearly defined by what appears to be pants (or less) made of body paint. Male asses just happen to be in the frame, female asses are put on display. It is very obvious.

[ProgramGamer]

Sounds like you need to play some metal gear solid :^)

[gimymblert]

exception confirming the rules :^) because precisely everybody notice woman's tits, nakedness and boobs and nobody care when it's male's, showing we have a dire need of rethinking how we treat women in general, moving the problem to men mean nothing because nobody literally cares unless you have dick dangling or worse erected.

[FK in the Coffee]

american mcgee posted a very bad facebook post about this video, so, everything is great

Weird how he cites an instance with that EA exec of pretty much exactly the kind of thing Anita's criticizing, but chooses to brush it off as inconsequential

[ProgramGamer]

Yes, the point is to reduce the amount of butts so as to make it so that butts are not the norm anymore. If that happens then butt games will become a niche to those who want it and the rest of gaming can enjoy games for actual game stuff.

This has nothing to do with butt shaming.

[JWK5]

It can be hard to put into perspective the problem when we've become so desensitized to it.

Imagine if 95% of all the games to feature male characters featured in video games were dressed like 80's wrestlers:


Meanwhile all the female characters fighting alongside them were dressed like this:


Now imagine that most of the time the camera made sure you got a healthy view of the oversized dangling genital pouch swaying enthusiastically just below the tightly wrapped butt cheeks of the male character (complete with individual testicle physics courtesy of Team Ninja) as he walks and runs with the exaggerated strut of a male stripper at all times.

Maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty sure you'd get tired of it by at least the 9th or 10th game you played that forced it upon you.



The problem isn't prominently displayed butts and sexuality, the problem is that when it comes down to most female characters there is no escaping it and more often than not it is presented as the most important thing about the character. I don't think I ever realized how bad it was a problem until I started playing games co-op with my wife and really looked at the costume and character choices she was stuck choosing from. It's really made me see things in a new light.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a little T&A now and again even in a video game (nor does my wife for that matter) but the fact that it is just plastered everywhere gets a little aggravating. It's funny, though, because a couple years back I never noticed it to be a problem and actually defended it to a degree. I think it is because we grow up with it, even kids shows and toys are sexualized. It's everywhere and as a result it almost becomes invisible, you just kind of accept it as the norm and move along. I can't really blame anyone for not seeing it, it is pretty subtle (despite being so obvious) and insidious like that. I am still learning and trying to fully wrap my head around it.

[Torchkas]

the problem

There is no problem. It's just something that needed to be pointed out.

Look I'm all for femfreq saying "hey guys, what you're doing is kinda weird sometimes", but to grab your big red stamp to put PROBLEMATIC on it will look prudish to a lot of people. No sane person actually gets their feelings hurt when you sexualize something. You don't hear complaining about wrestling games either. The only thing that needs to be addressed is that the phenomenon is too common with women, simply because the vast majority of decisions in games get made by straight males who don't think twice about this kind of stuff. That doesn't mean that there is a problem.

[ProgramGamer]

Uh, it IS a problem if women can't enjoy most award winning games because of this bullcrap that shouldn't even happen in the first place?

[Dragonmaw]

It's definitely a problem, and I think the solution is definitely more bulging crouch pouches

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

torchkas you seem to have a very dramatic idea of the word 'problem'

[JWK5]

There is no problem for me.

Fixed.

[Torchkas]

Well if there's no problem then then there's also no problem for me, is there now?

It's hard to take these things seriously because literally anything can make some people uncomfortable. Something being uncomfortable to someone does not make it problematic. You're steering towards the right-wing of the 60s when you go by that prudishness. Especially since the counterexample was a girl in an oldschool maid costume.

[FK in the Coffee]

the problem

There is no problem. It's just something that needed to be pointed out.

Look I'm all for femfreq saying "hey guys, what you're doing is kinda weird sometimes", but to grab your big red stamp to put PROBLEMATIC on it will look prudish to a lot of people. No sane person actually gets their feelings hurt when you sexualize something. You don't hear complaining about wrestling games either. The only thing that needs to be addressed is that the phenomenon is too common with women, simply because the vast majority of decisions in games get made by straight males who don't think twice about this kind of stuff. That doesn't mean that there is a problem.

Wew so

I have no idea who you're speaking for when you say

No sane person actually gets their feelings hurt when you sexualize something.

especially since you'd really think they'd only arbiter of what does and doesn't offend them.

It is a problem for the girls and women looking for game protagonists that aren't skin-deep and disenfranchised in some way or another. How is The End able to photosynthesize through thick layers of camo, but Quiet is stripped down to skin and a bikini because she has to "breathe through her skin" or some bullshit like that?

[ProgramGamer]

It's not about something that makes some people uncomfortable, it's about the overabundance of something that makes everything uncomfortable in your favorite hobby.

[Torchkas]

It's okay because that's what's going to be expected from the genre. Movies do the same thing. This doesn't mean that it can't be criticized. It just doesn't immediately make it a problem.

[gimymblert]

It's not okay in movie either nor anywhere else. But it's not the sexualization that is a problem, it's not a prudish issue.

It's the reinforcement that women are for men's entitlement and the constant policing of their body by male's ideal standards. Ie the worth of a women is in her sexuality.

Fighting this help women reappropriate their image as valuable for something else.

It goes beyond sexualization, it's also about the many facet of individual. Constantly sexualizing women erase that aspects by erasing other type of women.

It's the same problem as constantly showing white as savior and black as thug, it prescribe artificial place to anyone that prolong into real life.

That's how such things like feminist porn can exist. There is no contradiction.

[Mittens]

Tropes vs. Tropes in Tropes

the new Trope starring Tropey Tropestein, Trope Gyllentrope and Ice Trope

[Torchkas]

Look I agree with your post except:

Constantly sexualizing women erase that aspects by erasing other type of women.

I really doubt that sexualization disables someone from identifying as that person. Sexualizing someone doesn't immediately "erase" every other aspect of that person. In fact I think that beauty makes it easier for people to project themselves onto someone.

You aren't going to change the entire media image women ended up getting (which women also helped creating). I get that it is what feminism's supposed to be about now, but a lot of people are comfortable with it. When people collectively choose to create an image for themselves I don't see how it can be problematic.

[gimymblert]

Because you are ignorant about the argument of what you are saying, it's like you are telling black people they collectively decided to create slavery for themselves, you take for granted that women were always free, it's not true at all.

But like I said, it's the constant reduction to sexuality that is teh problem, I pointed to feminist porn as a counter narrative so what you don't agree about was already addressed anyway.