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[JWK5]

The bigger problem is because there is no real narrative hook you pretty much lose the main plot to the garbage dump of information that the side quests throw at you. You also wind up pulled in so many directions that no one place has time to sink in and saturate. One dungeon blurs into many, every NPC is the same NPC, and every town is just a loot repository and place to shop. You never really get intimately familiar with anywhere or anything because you are overwhelmed by so many unnecessary things.

Don't get me wrong, I love the ES games (and I've played the hell out of them, I think I had over 200 hours sunk in Skyrim) but every time I play a new one in the back of my mind I kind of wish they'd just corral me to manageable chunk of the world and progressively unravel the rest rather than send me on errands that scatter me all over the place. Reckoning: Kingdoms of Amalur did the chunk-by-chunk exploration and that really helped move the game along while still giving you tons of room to go fuck around and explore.

[Tuba]

i think you're misunderstanding the role of quests in elder scrolls as well. almost all of the content is open to you regardless of whether you do quests or not. so the quests are more just a guided tour through the content rather than an actual progression. ive played hours upon hours of morrowind (hugely influential game for me) and barely did any quests at all. in fact 14 years after i first played it, i still don't really know, or care, what the main plot is. it's something about dead dwarves or sth.

Yeah, but, basically, in order to enjoy 80% of the game (and I'm talking mainly about Oblivion here, since that's the one I have the most experience with, and I feel like Morrowind wasn't as bad in this regard), I have to first disconnect from the core conceit of the game, since every part of the main story is "It's urgent that you go here and do this."  Like, especially when I'm playing a role-playing game, I want to think in terms of why my character is doing what they're doing, either in a systemic way (I need more money and practice to get the thing I need to fight the guy) or in a narrative way (I need to help out the villagers so they'll like me more). 

Yeah I hate when an RPG is full of side quests but the main quest keeps pushing you on with no room to take a break to do them. "You're our only hope, you must hurry to defeat the wizard" but then there's this big sidequest about helping some village that does nothing to the main quest and it just feels wrong to be doing it. But that might be just me.

Most Final Fantasy games at some point tell you "Ok, now you're free to do whatever you want, go explore the world, no rush" and I appreciate them for that.

[s0]

Otoh you get to pretty much play Elder Scrolls games any way you like which is rare even for open world games. Or at least I don't know any other AAA series that lets you freely access what would normally be "story content" and experience it on your own terms. Bethesda's faults are down to weak writing (more noticeable in fallout 3 and 4 than the TES series because these games are more traditionally story focused) and trying to do too much of everything.

[Crabby]

Well, i posted in this, and as it is giving me reminders, I'll post one of my pet peeves.
This one is particularly obvious in fallout 4, but it's fetch quests.
I hate when an npc gives fetch quests. Sure, they are good sparingly, but when an npc is constantly: "Hey can you bring my jug of apple juice across the map and deliver it to someone? Thanks!" "Hey I have more apple juice, but this time, bring it to the south of the map, and pour it in the river." "More apple juice, but this time, bring it to the moon."
It's the same thing. ALL THE TIME.
A real game example is Preston Garvey from fallout 4.
Another settlement needs your help.
But if they're used sparingly, I guess they can be a good type of quest. I just don't like them.

[s0]

A real game example is Preston Garvey from fallout 4.
Another settlement needs your help.

yeah i stopped doing those quests at some point. they are pretty bad.

[Crabby]

A real game example is Preston Garvey from fallout 4.
Another settlement needs your help.

yeah i stopped doing those quests at some point. they are pretty bad.

"I saved the people of settlement x!"
"Oh cool. But now they have no food, and there's raiders. Go kill them."
"But I saved them!"
"They also have ghouls following them. Another settlement needs your help."

[voidSkipper]

Low-HP alarms. That's irked me since Pokemon Blue.

This one is super specific but: In a limited-resources game, enemies that seem to have unlimited resources, but drop almost nothing. Like, you have 4 bullets for your rifle. The enemies are using the same rifle, and use suppressing fire like they're getting paid by the bullet, you finally kill one, and they drop two bullets. 

Games that give you a waypoint when you haven't found the right way after 5 minutes. It's like someone telling you the answer while you're trying to solve a puzzle. Makes the developers look insecure.

Ultra broad, but: Games that offer fun ways to play, but only allow you to progress by playing in a less interesting manner.

[GaiaX2]

Basically, a LOT of these pet peeves of mine comes from games like Mega Man and/or Sonic the Hedgehog, you have been warned.

• Spike City: This has been plaguing mega man as a series since day fucking one. hell, even fangames recreate this for "authenticity". This includes things like insta-kill lasers in Quickman's stage in MMII, which was amplified in Rainbowman's stage in Mega Man Unlimited.
• Retractable Spikes: While Sonic the Hedgehog was always momentum-based, it always had a puzzle element to help slow things down. Things like these are out of place these days when the series is known for holding right to win
• Yoku Blocks: These notorious fucks are seen in every game, in which they dissapear and reappear in a set pattern, getting harder and harder as the series progresses to the point where there's a fucking STAGE dedicated to it.
• Spike Platform: Gosh, these are all spike-related, aren't they? I wonder why..

[Quicksand-T]

Basically, a LOT of these pet peeves of mine comes from games like Mega Man and/or Sonic the Hedgehog, you have been warned.

• Spike City: This has been plaguing mega man as a series since day fucking one. hell, even fangames recreate this for "authenticity". This includes things like insta-kill lasers in Quickman's stage in MMII, which was amplified in Rainbowman's stage in Mega Man Unlimited.
• Retractable Spikes: While Sonic the Hedgehog was always momentum-based, it always had a puzzle element to help slow things down. Things like these are out of place these days when the series is known for holding right to win
• Yoku Blocks: These notorious fucks are seen in every game, in which they dissapear and reappear in a set pattern, getting harder and harder as the series progresses to the point where there's a fucking STAGE dedicated to it.
• Spike Platform: Gosh, these are all spike-related, aren't they? I wonder why..

What's a good use of spikes, in your opinion? Are there any?

[Eigen]

My biggest pet peeve is that "Don't turn off your system while this icon is displayed" shit that's been plaguing PC games in the recent years. It probably started out in some console port where, I guess, it made sense for the console but who the fuck turns off their computer mid-use or even when not using, for that matter. It's not like power buttons even work immediately as you press it. I turn off my PC once every two weeks maybe, when I'm going out of town or whatever.

[GaiaX2]

Basically, a LOT of these pet peeves of mine comes from games like Mega Man and/or Sonic the Hedgehog, you have been warned.

• Spike City: This has been plaguing mega man as a series since day fucking one. hell, even fangames recreate this for "authenticity". This includes things like insta-kill lasers in Quickman's stage in MMII, which was amplified in Rainbowman's stage in Mega Man Unlimited.
• Retractable Spikes: While Sonic the Hedgehog was always momentum-based, it always had a puzzle element to help slow things down. Things like these are out of place these days when the series is known for holding right to win
• Yoku Blocks: These notorious fucks are seen in every game, in which they dissapear and reappear in a set pattern, getting harder and harder as the series progresses to the point where there's a fucking STAGE dedicated to it.
• Spike Platform: Gosh, these are all spike-related, aren't they? I wonder why..

What's a good use of spikes, in your opinion? Are there any?

I don't mind spike traps.. in relatively small doses. (maybe 2~5 each stage? having more than 10 rows of spikes is unecessary and overkill, depending on the stage layout)

Games where side-quests don't have a narrative and/or mechanical reason to do them.  The Elder Scrolls game are a perfect example.  The plot is constantly "Go here, do this, you are the world's only hope", which makes taking some time off to help out a villager really drive home how fake the stakes are.  The end of the world will wait for you.  And on top of that, because of how the world levels with you, doing side quests won't actually help you get stronger.  There'll be no point where you'll go "Okay, before I head into that dungeon, I should do some side quests so I'll be prepared."  Like, preferably a game should provide you with an obstacle and doing side quests should be a tool at your disposal to get around that obstacle.

Related: Stories in RPGs that undermine the title character. GOD I hate those.. 

i will never understand why so many indie devs skimp on control customization (something that takes literally less than 30 minutes to implement).

That reminds me..! once I program a coherent menu in I'll try to figure out how to create a code for customizable controls. Honestly, I really don't understand that either..

[s0]

honestly i think the "hardcore platformer with spikes everywhere" thing is just corny at this point.

[valrus]

VERY SPECIFIC PEEVE: Combining masocore spike challenges (or the equivalent) with an exploration platformer with backtracking (like a Metroidvania), without opening shortcuts around challenges you've already faced.

The first time I get past those moving platforms where there's also bats and spikes?  Feels great.

But when I've now got the whatever boots and am searching around the corners of the map trying to find new places to use it, and have to navigate the platforms and bats and spikes for the tenth time?  There's no feeling of accomplishment left to be wrung out of it.

[Zencha]

Games where the player will clearly do one option or action over others but the developer doesn't optimize for it.

Example: in LISA (which is pretty good so far), the walk speed is abysmal. You eventually find a bike which you can do everything with (including climb/descend rope??) but it doubles the movespeed. Basically, the only time you wouldn't use the bike is when you want to fall down a gap (since the bike jumps 1 space gaps otherwise).

Except, you often dismount from the bike and then you have to dig deep into the menu to put it back on. There's a hotkey to dismount... why not a hotkey to equip again1?!?

[Tuba]

VERY SPECIFIC PEEVE: Combining masocore spike challenges (or the equivalent) with an exploration platformer with backtracking (like a Metroidvania), without opening shortcuts around challenges you've already faced.

The first time I get past those moving platforms where there's also bats and spikes?  Feels great.

But when I've now got the whatever boots and am searching around the corners of the map trying to find new places to use it, and have to navigate the platforms and bats and spikes for the tenth time?  There's no feeling of accomplishment left to be wrung out of it.

Metroid does a great job on this giving you upgrades that make those parts easier (like double jump or grappling hook).

[valrus]

Yeah, the Metroid games are how it should be done.

Also, the Metroid games aren't very difficult, which mitigates this problem further.  This really only shows up in the little niche of masocore-metroidvania hybrids, but it's like the key thing that goes wrong when these genres are combined.

[s0]

Also, the Metroid games aren't very difficult, which mitigates this problem further.  This really only shows up in the little niche of masocore-metroidvania hybrids, but it's like the key thing that goes wrong when these genres are combined.

what are some examples of those games?

[Photon]

Yoku Blocks

As a big MegaMan fan, this is probably the one mechanic I would single out as something that the series could have done without. And where'd that name come from anyway?

Ironically, I once thought about what it would be like to make a game based solely off of it. Ya' know:

honestly i think the "hardcore platformer with spikes everywhere" thing is just corny at this point.

I mean, it could've been cool and hip, right?

Disclaimer: I was not a big fan of those "spikes everywhere" platformers either. But there was something appealing about the idea of taking one of MegaMan's most notorious, out-of-place mechanics and turning it into a complete game. Mmmm...

[valrus]

Games like Under the Moon, You Have to Win the Game, Skelemania, Kodachrome, Ruins of Machi Itcza, L'Abbaye des Morts (sorta).  (I can't think of a commercial one; I guess it's more of a browser niche.  VVVVVV is a cousin but keeps its exploration and its spike challenges pretty separate.)

They have various styles of difficulty, exploration, and unlock patterns, so they're not all masocore or Metroidvania, exactly.  But there's a family resemblance: Exploration and backtracking, one hit kills and frequent checkpoints, emphasis on traversal challenges and usually no means to kill enemies.  "Willyvanias"?

[Photon]

Games like Under the Moon, You Have to Win the Game, Skelemania, Kodachrome, Ruins of Machi Itcza, L'Abbaye des Morts (sorta).  (I can't think of a commercial one; I guess it's more of a browser niche.  VVVVVV is a cousin but keeps its exploration and its spike challenges pretty separate.)

I think labeling VVVVVV as a Metroidvania is a rather big stretch, though maybe by "cousin" you meant it in a looser sense. Its open world is really more of a glorified level select hub, albeit an adequately well-done one at that.