next »

[Duckmeister]

I've noticed the increasing popularity of game maker software to create games.  Some games are excellent, while some games are not.  I've also noticed an increasing popularity in the looking-down-upon folks that use gamemaker, by folks that make their games in other ways (most often, folks that make their games by scratch).

So, I'm asking you, TIG members, do you think that gamemaker is a valid program for making games?  Does it depend on the final result?  Is it really "noob-like" for people to use game maker, or are their games just as valid as a game of the same quality made from different sources?

I'm one of those guys that has a ton of ideas bouncing in his head, and game maker usually is the software that can get these ideas onto the computer in a short amount of time.  I've used game maker before, and with advanced use the results can be stunning.

A penny (or two) for everyone's thoughts.

[Devlin]

Ooh! i'll have a penny. :p

By personal opinion, if it can make applications or games, it's a viable programming tool.
Game Maker is very much a complete programming tool, primarily aimed at people who want to make games, but lack the gusto to use a more advanced(BlitzMax)/low level language(C++/#).
Like me

Even Notepad could be considered a viable programming tool(if only it had a compile button!), albeit a very loose one.

As it stands, mileage and viablility may vary from tool to tool.

on the "noob-like" stance, Bollocks to it. Game Maker is a fantastic tool, and anyone who calls GM users noobs, needs to get a slap*.

*see games from Cactus and a multitude of people for examples.

[Sk8rCai]

I'd like to echo the sentiments of Devlin; it doesn't matter what the tool is, the most important thing is spending time creating something fun.

Every now and then there are discussions on using "proper" languages; a popular discussion is using C++ and it's ilk, at the end of the day you use the tools that enable you to get ideas out of your head and into a format that people can play.

It's all about using the tools available to you, that you feel comfortable using, in a creative manner.

[mirosurabu]

By just looking at games made in GM you can say it's viable for most designer's prototyping needs. It does not give you complete freedom, but the freedom is not very limited. At the end, most people don't need complete freedom.

Some people will argue that game making software forces you to do some things the wrong or "weird" way. Yes, it does, but I think it's more about adaptation than anything else. Once you get used to "weird" way it becomes normal way.

I am C++ programmer and since recently I started using Construct for my games. It's game-development environment similar to GM in that it's aimed for people not familiar with programming, but has number of differences. (primary being - it's free)

[Corpus]

Yes, it's viable.

Anyone who looks down on it is a fool.
Unless they work in machine code, they're probably also a hypocrite.

[genericuser]

GM is completely viable for game creation; as long as you're comfortable with it, it's fine IMO.

[Kekskiller]

I prefer to split game making software into: a) the game making aspect and b) the technical/programmer aspect. GM is great for game making, the possibilites can get extended if you have the know-how. But the technical aspect for a programmer is horrible. Talking about game making, it's great! But talking about making a game from scratch, using a compiler/libraries and your own power/knowledge/creativity/whatever, GM isn't very viable. Comparing GM to the real code monkey's work is like a comparison between FL Studio and SynthEdit: they aim at different people with different work flows.

[brog]

Look at cactus.  Look at SPELUNKY, dammit.  Game Maker is awesome.  I make my games in C++, mostly because I'm familiar with it and I enjoy making shiny graphics, but I keep meaning to try out this GameMaker thing because it seems like it's pretty marvellous for rapid prototyping.

[Tazi]

GM for game design is viable, why wouldn't it be? If you wanna be a musician, you do not need to learn how to program an own VSTi in C++, or how to carve your own flute from wood. Just as a game designer don't have to learn a low level language for designing.

[Kneecaps]

Don't forget Gang Garrison 2, brog!

I've noticed that quite a few people who look down on game-making tools (including Flash, Game Maker, MMF2, RPG Maker, and sometimes even Unity) only know the basics of a language like C++ and have never made a proper game themselves.  (At least at my school)

There's never a reward for doing things the hard way when the easier way produces almost identical results.  Cactus wouldn't have nearly as many games if they were all made in a low-level language with libraries that he had to build by himself.

[Tazi]

Btw, I'm think most people look down on these game creation tools because there are so many garbage made with them, since it's so easy to use them. But RPG Maker is even worse then GM or MMF on this one, since about 99% of those RM games use only plagiarised music/gfx. 

[Strong]

Using these game making tools makes it easier to make a game but sometimes harder to make a good game, and they get looked down upon because of that sometimes. But really amazing work can come out of them, and they really shouldn't be looked down upon at all. Don't criticize the way the person made the game, I say- just focus on criticizing the game itself.

And, by the way, I use MMF2, which is in ways even more limited than GM.

[deadeye]

I don't think it's necessarily harder to make a good game, just that the accessibility of game creation tools make it easier for people with little skill or drive to make games.  That's what leads to this high ratio of bad GM or MMF games as opposed to bad games made in a "real" programming language.

Learning a language like C++ takes a lot of dedication, patience, and practice.  These are all qualities that, when applied to game design, result in noticeably better games. 

Game creation tools allow people to take shortcuts.  There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but you still need those qualities of dedication, patience, and practice behind your project.  The type of person who is low on these qualities will be drawn to game making tools, thinking the are a magical salve that will allow them to somehow make good games with no effort.

As an analogy, your food processor can chop things much faster than a knife, but if you don't know how to cook then you don't know how to cook.  A food processor can't teach you how to sautee, and Game Maker can't teach you what good level design is.  These are skill sets that require time and effort to master... and anyone who's well versed in a "real" programming language knows all about time and effort.

So, can you make some tasty gourmet games with Game Maker?  Of course you can.  But you still have to learn to cook first.

[Shuger]

When some people spend countless hours searching for bugs and learning some strange algorithms, and finally complete their game, they see same quality game done with 50% less effort. Players who rate games don't really care if it's done in asm, C++, or GM, and they are right but it may give some developers a feeling of being underrated. 

Personaly i prefer writing games in C++. Still, apart from the fact i don't get the whole Cactus hype, i really like some GM games (Spelunky :D). 

[deadeye]

Players who rate games don't really care if it's done in asm, C++, or GM, and they are right but it may give some developers a feeling of being underrated...

...i don't get the whole Cactus hype...

I have a feeling the first comment has a lot to do with the second comment

And I don't know if I've ever played any of your games but I'm sure you did your best

[Duckmeister]

Well, I'm extremely happy with the responses here.  I have the exact same opinions as most of you.

Also, I'm happy because I tried out construct and it's awesome.  I love it.  It's kinda confusing at first, but then once you get the hang of it it's great.

[deadeye]

Also, I'm happy because I tried out construct and it's awesome.  I love it.  It's kinda confusing at first, but then once you get the hang of it it's great.

For that you get a Crescent Fresh avatar

[Duckmeister]

For that you get a Crescent Fresh avatar

DUDE! This is the first person I have ever met on the internet that actually knows sifl & olly.  This is awesome!

Man, no one I know has ever even heard of them, they were the best.

This made my day, thank you very much sir.

[deadeye]

No problem

(But if you could find alternate hosting for it that'd be great )

[DrEnzyme]

I know I'm echoing everyone else's sentiments here, but I also think Game Maker is a viable tool (I didn't always think so). I myself am a C++ man but it's really frustrating when you spend a couple of hours doing something in Visual Studio, when you could've done the same thing in Game Maker much faster...

I like Game Maker's rapid development time and I like C++'s flexibility.