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[r.kachowski]

These people are just trying to put you off of such a great opportunity, for whatever personal reason they have.

Drat! Spotted again! Damn you Crystal Cooooooooooooooore!!!

[CrystalCore]

As a developer should know, running a project does not enable us to take time out to get to know every member of each community we post for interested applicants, while i can understand that you may get thousands of spam posts here, it is clear that we am not here to deface your community in any way. We are simply offering an opportunity to people who may want the experience of working in a studio.

I'm not to sure what you mean by your last comment, our website and this post do not differ as far as information goes, however obviously there is more in-depth information available on our website.

Again, its the members that have spammed on this thread that have lowered its general tone, im sure there are many people interested in what we can offer, as a community that supports game development, I'm surprised at the lack of support for such a post, when most content in this forum is composed of unrelated links and references. (At least in the 'General' forum).

[Gainsworthy]

We tend to respond to huge, "WANT A [hotdog]" posts this way. I daresay you're the first to actually post more than once. We're skeptical buggers, and you've gotta admit it does look an awful lot like a spam post.

New member, lots of commercial data, impersonal post, scant project details (on the site or otherwise). If you compare it to the rest of the forum it sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb.


If you're legit (and hey, you're replying, and you're annoyed, so that's something  ) I wish you all the best with the project. Some advice, though - most of us indie fora don't have a heavy business slant. Try and sell yourselves to the public with more than a list of requests - if you can't say what it is you're working on, at least give us some links about the folks on your team. Past projects, art/music pages, stuff like that. You could lure a friendly gamer audience as well. Hype is good.


Again, if you're simply representing a couple of guys trying to make a game, good fortune and such! Hope I didn't come across as too smarmy, but that was a rather clumsy first impression you gave us.

[Guert]

Hey there Crystal Core!

yeah, as it was pointed out earlier, posting a long job offer under the nickname of a company as a first post, without properly introducing yourself and with the post promising jobs as well as the wbesite not working properly when first posted makes this look like spam. And, as a general rule, we moderators change spam posts to something related to hot dogs. It's funnier and it makes you hungry for those little pieces of heaven.

Anyone likes pillsbury dough hotdogs? Like a weiner wrapped with cheese and pillsbury dough? Nasty I tell ya! Nasty!

So yeah anyway, I'm not changing this post because it sound sligit and you are still here posting, which I like. I'm gonna move this to the anouncement section since you have introduced yourself in the proper thread.

One day I gotta try one of them foot long hot dogs. One day. A man can dream...

So Crystal, have you got some screenies or demos of games you made in the past? Also, what's your first name? Refering to you as Crystal makes me feel like talking to a stripper In all cases, just hang around, have fun, post around...  Welcome to TIGS

Take care!

[CrystalCore]

Hi there, thanks for the replies, seems we got off on the wrong foot. I'm Tyler Trevell, one of the members of the team, you can find a full list of the members here:
http://crystal-core.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=56

As for any content from our current project, i would love to send through links but due to our NDA document that has made things increasingly difficult to release anything,(we had to sit through a formal meeting to agree on releasing the titles name.)

However we will be running a developers blog as soon as we have the go ahead, so if you think this might be a good resource for your members, we will be covering many aspects of development. Any game-related content that we are allowed to release, I'll be sure to keep you all updated.

[Glyph]

Well, glad to see you've formally introduced yourself into the community!
Hope this project goes well for you!
(and we can't help ourselves from a bit of fun, you know.)

[Mipe]

Game journalists, website managers, 3D/2D artists... no programmers. Am I correct in assuming that it all is pretty much a castle in the clouds?

In any case, good luck with your ventures!

[CrystalCore]

Hi, that's entirely why we're posting this thread, to find a programmer here in the UK. Currently i am taking on most of the light scripting required with the engine, that is until we find a programmer.

[Fuzz]

See, most random people on an indie games forum are not going to want to join a project you can't even show anything about!

[CrystalCore]

I understand if you don't know anything about marketing, but later down the road, after development and finalizing a product, if there's information floating around the net, people will find it. This is, in some cases not a problem, but with our project, it would infact effect later marketing strategies that we have put in place. Besides, if someone wants to get into the industry, apart from a little bit of personal preference, you shouldn't mind what your making.

[Business Bear]

Around here people love to see the results of real works in progress.  "Marketing strategies," "great opportunities," and "NDAs" are going to be a real tough sell to the DIY indie crowd.

Of course, good luck with ... whatever it is!   

EDIT: Oh, and I should also say that I'm very glad that companies post job openings here.  Unfortunately, most tend not to be real jobs, and are just for equity in a company with no revenue.

[Iamthejuggler]

Besides, if someone wants to get into the industry, apart from a little bit of personal preference, you shouldn't mind what your making.

I think you may have missed the point of independant game making.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Yeah, you're saying "get into the industry" as if it were a good thing. A lot of indie developers are indie developers because they got out of the industry, and preferred owning their own games instead of making them for others, and preferred having full creative control over their games. Some people only make games as a hobby because they hope to get into the industry one day, and that's fine, but that isn't really the point here; you may have better luck on forums like gamedev.net's forums.

Also, I'd suggest that no indie developer should ever work with a team who hasn't finished anything before, simply because most projects like this wind up going nowhere. Everyone thinks they'll be the exception and that they really will finish their game even though the entire team has no experience finishing games, but they're usually not exceptions.

Another thing is that an important part of marketing is good public relations -- following the rules of the forums you post in for instance -- and threads like this aren't good public relations.

[Mipe]

Another thing is that an important part of marketing is good public relations -- following the rules of the forums you post in for instance -- and threads like this aren't good public relations.

Such as hostility from the forum members as evident in this very thread? That will do TIGSource quite a PR image indeed.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Well, I'm not defending all the stupid "hot dog" stuff either -- I think that's kind of ridiculous too, and wrong for the same reasons. But at least TIGSource isn't trying to sell anything, and doesn't really need to maintain good public relations. It's a community rather than a company.

[Kekskiller]

:D

This thread is a great example why I love TIGSource so much

[Lynx]

I should probably point out this within the company website gave me the most pause.  Even if I were in the UK, I'd have qualms about:

The studio is currently running on an un-funded business model. All expenses are paid by the team. However we are looking to seek out external funding for future projects

[CrystalCore]

Yes, we're self funded, but to continue developing our products at the level we currently are, we will require some external support. I'm not to sure exactly how that might pose questions. I've been apart of this industry (games) for a while now, i know exactly what im doing, and as someone earlier stated, your really decreasing your public image with every hijacked thread.

[team_q]

How much does this Programmer position pay?

EDIT I found it on the website:

- You must understand that you are working for ROYALTIES, we cannot afford a salary at this time.

If it's nothing then isn't what you are saying essentially smoke? People who work for companies want to get PAYED, not work for companies. This is all you seem to be offering. If I have "Strong C/C++ programming skills" and "Strong 3D graphics programming skills", which I may, why would I 'work' for somebody that cant even pay me? I would have to get another job, probably with a company that pays.

Everyone, if you want to be told what to do, do all the heavy lifting, have no prior knowledge of a project before being hired, work for a 'company' of 4 people, whom have never completed anything professionally. Not see a dime for it, unless the project actually gets finished, which is not guaranteed. What happened to WarScathed?

You can't walk in here with fancy words like "Marketing" and "NDA"s and expect us to think you are a legit company.

Next time, come in with a friendly attitude and show your willingness to take part in the community, then you might not encounter as much flack from the community, we are friendly people we like other friendly people, we are not interested in pretend job postings and faux official language.

At this point you guys are a programmer and several months behind Jfresh's crew.

[genericuser]

Yes, we're self funded, but to continue developing our products at the level we currently are, we will require some external support. I'm not to sure exactly how that might pose questions. I've been apart of this industry (games) for a while now, i know exactly what im doing, and as someone earlier stated, your really decreasing your public image with every hijacked thread.

Every hijacked thread?

Most of them are spam, as far as I remember, and cracking down on spam isn't exactly detrimental to one's public image. The moderators even have a sense of humor about it(if slightly misguided, depending on your views).
And besides, TIGSource is a community, not a company, so public image isn't as big a priority here as it would be for a company.

I'm sorry if that was a bit harsh.  

EDIT: The unfunded part isn't a very good idea, IMO. To make it work, you basically have to make sure that your game sells a decent amount of copies. Making people discover your game is one thing, making them buy it is another. Add the fact that you expect people to work essentially for free, and...yeah. You might want to reconsider that part