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[Renton]

Another thing is that an important part of marketing is good public relations -- following the rules of the forums you post in for instance -- and threads like this aren't good public relations.

Such as hostility from the forum members as evident in this very thread? That will do TIGSource quite a PR image indeed.

Well, when your first post ever looks pretty much like the work of a spambot (No offense, Tyler), people tend to treat you like one.

[Mipe]

Well, when your first post ever looks pretty much like the work of a spambot (No offense, Tyler), people tend to treat you like one.

Don't you think responding to a spambot would be as futile as screaming at the wall?

Case 1: It is a spambot - you are wasting time and energy by replying to it.
Case 2: It is a legit person/company - oops, you just attributed to the drama.

Though I agree that everything is a bit silly, things could be done quite a bit better. Castle in clouds, man.

[Renton]

It's is quite inane, but it's fun.

[Guert]

Come one people, what the hell is going on now?

First off... Tyler, it's great that you have a job opening to share with TIGS. I'm pretty happy about that. I understand your position too. I've worked on many game projects too and I have too had to search the web on many occasions for people who believed in the project and wanted to work for free until someone makes a little money out of it. TIGS has a good deal of talented creators who are ready to help you out.  You seem like a fine gent and I would be more than happy to see you successfull. The mods here at TIGS like to keep the community tightly knit so that people who needs help get quality comments and talent for their projects. We keep spam posts as examples of what not to do and to publicly show that spammers, trolls and other internet low-lives will have a hard time spoiling people's fun around here. So far it worked very well. Members are joining and behaving with little moderating effort. I can say that this is not common around the net.

So, all I can suggest to you now is to simply show us something to prove you are serious. Like concept art. Fake screenshots. Just one image will do the trick. You'll need this eventualy if you want to approach business partners or potential players. Threat your search of team members like you would deal with a publisher or someone with some money to invest. You can talk a lot but in the end, the guy will want to know if you can walk the walk too. A little visual makes things 100 times better. So good luck.

Now, for the rest of the people out there in TIGS land. Sure the guy's post looked like spam but he's still around so you don't need to keep shoving in his face that he was about to get hot-dogged. I think he learned his lesson the hard way And about "image" and "marketing" and that kind of thing... TIGS to me is a friendly community where those who want to be part of it can find great people but those who tries to tear it apart or use it for personal profit gets hammered down like yesterday's garbage. Nope, I'm not Derek and nope I'm not the one running this forum but I'm assigned as a moderator here and that's the goal I aim for. It's so hard being indie, its so easy to destroy a community, TIGS ain't gonna be some place where immature people hang around pissing off talent but a place where independent devs meet and share what they have with those who are interested.

Now I'm feeling like closing this thread since its heading nowhere and its definitly not going in an helpful direction. If anyone needs to post something about the job or is interested, contact Tyler. If you have something that is not directly relevant to the job position, please, hold your post. Not happy about that? Message me. We'll talk.

What's been said and done has been said and done. Time to move on. 
Thanks

[Zaphos]

There was a lot of carry-over discussion on the hot dogs, sure, but I did think there was still something interesting to discuss, regarding the idea that joining an unknown company and unfunded project with no profit model and no salary is a good way to join the industry, and that people should want to do it even if they don't like the project.  And furthermore for a company that is looking for inexperienced people, and that takes the attitude towards future employees that they are being given an 'opportunity' just to work for free?  To me that sounds like set of claims that's worth discussing, especially if tigs people are considering this sort of job.

[CrystalCore]

Right, well.. This is all i could squeeze out. So if this doesn't prove I'm not a spam bot, and that this company isn't legit, then i don't know what else will.



It's not much, but hey, its something extra, no?

[CrystalCore]

Oh and:
http://www.mcvuk.com/press-releases/45930/Crystal-Core-launch

[Guert]

Well there you go.

[Mipe]

That does look promising. But any skilled artist can come up with a serious logo. The question is... what about the engine beneath?

Are you going to build an engine from bottoms up? Or are you going to use one of existing engines? There are quite a few Open Source 3D engines (for example Ogre) etc. - as a video game journalist you are no doubt aware of them. Once you have narrowed your choice down, come back with the list and there may be quite a few interested parties.

Especially if you try on that engine's community portal (Ogre's got quite a base, I believe).

Just my 2 cents.

[CrystalCore]

As stated in the original post, we are using the Leadwerks 2 Engine, which we will be licensing within the next three weeks. Development of the PC title (besides design which has already begun) will begin this June/July.

[Lynx]

Well, I look at it this way.

You are expecting team members to shoulder a part of the expenses for startup.  If you have an office, rent is part of the expenses and pretty considerable; if you are working out of homes/garages, then you need to factor in communication difficulties between team mates.  Licensing engines also costs money, purchasing software costs money, and team members would have to provide for their own costs of living until revenue arrives.

Maybe you can get publisher buy-in early and then pay back team members from an advance.  The point remains that joining such a company represents an investment on the part of the prospective team member.  As such, they will undoubtedly be wary of making the investment without having some reason to believe that it will be a safe one.

At any rate, I wish you good luck finding the personnel you need, and in developing a truly amazing game that will meet every expectation.

[Oddball]

As stated in the original post, we are using the Leadwerks 2 Engine, which we will be licensing within the next three weeks. Development of the PC title (besides design which has already begun) will begin this June/July.

Ouch! I'd consider a different engine if I were you. Even if I wanted to become part of your team it'd cost me a fortune to get my rig up to the minimum specs. to run Leadwerks engine games, let alone develop them. And if I remember rightly, which I'm sure I do, the Leadwerks people seem to keep starting work on the next iteration of their engine before finishing the last. Not the kind of engine you want to buy the early adopters version for, if you get what I mean.

[CrystalCore]

Ah, and what engine would you recommend?

[Derek]

Honestly, Tyler, I hope that nobody decides to take you up on your offer, because the potential for your game's success is infinitesimal.  You've got two designers and two artists with almost zero experience (helping to run a "video gaming media website" does not count as development experience) and NO programmers.  And your first few posts here display a lack of forethought/research that is inexcusable for a team leader.

Basically, you have a lot more to worry about than your future marketing strategies.

[CrystalCore]

Thats quite alright Admin, your entitled to your opinion, as i said above, we are posting this thread to LOOK FOR A PROGRAMMER, because we currently DONT HAVE ONE. Read please.

I will pass by your final comment, if someone cant research the thread their posting in for information, then they can't really comment on someones supposed 'lack of team management and research skills'.

We will no longer be posting here, you have, as I'm sure not for the first time, pushed away a member of the community who wishes to offer something to the community itself. If anyone would like to continue following our project, or would like to join the team please contact us. If you are only interested in bombarding us with negative comments which are just not helpful, then we have no time for you.

It's quite a shame, i almost thought that you would of realized our legitimacy after the following posts, which were made to answer such claims.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Huh? You didn't address anything, you just ignored most of the points and just said "I know exactly what I'm doing" -- which isn't very reassuring. Being a games journalist doesn't mean you'd be a good game designer, and your lack of knowledge of who Derek Yu is (calling him administrator seems to imply that) kind of shows you don't know much about indie games community.

It might not seem helpful, but you should really take the so-called negative comments to heart. Most people who never finished games before will not finish a game, and adding more people to a team of people who never finished a game before, and promising them royalties, won't make finishing the game any more likely. That's very important and you should be accounting for that by trying to get some game development experience before you undertake a commercial venture, instead of calling it an "opportunity" to work for a team that never made a game, as the programmer who will realize the vision of the rest of the team, for no pay. My suggested approach (as many of us told JForce) is to make a few freeware games first, and after you're confident in your abilities and experience, then proceed to making games that you want to monetize.

This is so similar to JForce escapade that it's funny: team with no programmers wants programmers to make their game for them, promises everything, but can't pay anything. Posts on forums everywhere in an attempt to gain programmer. Ignores all criticism and insists they know what they're doing, even after the project goes nowhere and it's clear that they were wrong and everyone else was right.

[Derek]

Tyler, I read all of your posts, and looked through your website, too.  I'm saying that it is a huge red flag when a team has too many inexperienced designers, artists, and "producers."

[Glyph]

You're not coming here anymore? But you introduced yourself and everything
Just listen to advice, and try to make this a positive environment, not a vicious one.

[Renton]

*dismissive wank motion*

[Aik]

And so nothing of value was lost.

I do enjoy these threads though. It's amazing how many people expect highly competent programmers to make their game for them. It would be offensive if it wasn't so damn funny.