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[stick100]

Have any of you considered buying or selling a game IP (as in the whole product, art, source code, future revenue, IP and sequels)? I'm interested in getting into the business but having a difficult time finding something I want to make, but I'd be happy to extend and support an existing game.

I was thinking if I could find a game that's already released and earning and offering a multiple of the games monthly revenue. Mostly I was thinking this would be best for a game that was a critical success on a few platforms, but commercially disappointing. Then if I was willing to put in the effort I could make a return by continuing support and getting it on additional platforms.

Mainly I was thinking it would work best for people who had a game that released that was a financial disappointment who are frustrated and want to move on (or already have).

It seems like there is a market for buying flash game IP but nothing really for anything else.

[JustColorado]

The reason people sell flash games is so they can submit it to other websites, and they expect X game plays.
The big flash game sites deliver a certain amount of traffic.
It is almost like just buying a banner ad or other internet traffic. 
If you want to know more about how that works talkarcades forum is where all those guys hang out.

Selling successful games that are making money.  That is interesting.
I haven't really seen an active online market for that.
There is also a few mobile games on Flippa, but I don't trust the build to flip sellers there.

I have thought about approaching some game devs individually for something like what you suggested.
But I always ended up talking myself out of it because I couldn't come up with proposal terms that
I could see both sides going for.

It is an interesting idea.  To buy a game and its revenues and all future rights to publish it
on other platforms.

What do you think the formula should be to calculate what its worth?

[stick100]

The reason people sell flash games is so they can submit it to other websites, and they expect X game plays.
The big flash game sites deliver a certain amount of traffic.
It is almost like just buying a banner ad or other internet traffic. 
If you want to know more about how that works talkarcades forum is where all those guys hang out.

Selling successful games that are making money.  That is interesting.
I haven't really seen an active online market for that.
There is also a few mobile games on Flippa, but I don't trust the build to flip sellers there.

I have thought about approaching some game devs individually for something like what you suggested.
But I always ended up talking myself out of it because I couldn't come up with proposal terms that
I could see both sides going for.

It is an interesting idea.  To buy a game and its revenues and all future rights to publish it
on other platforms.

What do you think the formula should be to calculate what its worth?

In the normal business world for similar products you usually buy for a multiple of recent monthly revenue.  Getting the number of months depends on a ton of factors, games tend to drop off pretty quickly so in many cases so I think something in the range of 5-20 months of recent (non-bundle) revenue would probably be the range. 

As from the original post I think it would only really mostly be interesting to a dev who has moved on or is leaving the business.  I'm a hobbyist but could see supporting, extending and porting to additional platforms a moderately successful game that the original dev/team is ready to abandon.

[JustColorado]

Your idea sounds very interesting. 

People do get sick of projects.
If they need money, they might go for it.

I would consider investing in a project like that. 
I do see a few pitfalls.

Where is it selling?  Steam, Google Play, Apple? these places don't just let you buy and
sell dev accounts and you can't transfer an app from one dev account to another. 
Resubmitting the app, can put you through review again.  So there is a risk of
losing it completely, or you have to pay the developer up front and then trust
he keeps paying you royalties from his dev account. 

But depending on the deal maybe it still can work.  You buy the Trademark, the source
and the assets. he keeps his dev account.  Then you can release version 2, or on another
platform.  He gets cash upfront and keeps his dying revenue as well.  I think most devs
would go for that.

I suppose you could negotiate for the revenue too.  Or at least make it a deal
point and then you negotiate about the price of those 3 things separately.  IMHO,
a dying revenue stream from an old game is not a very compelling investment. 

The trademark, the assets, some press, a following, the code. 
In the right hands that can be made into something valuable.
and without TLC it will definitely become worthless.
So it is a nice value proposition for both sides.

Also the project really needs to be well organized.  If it is sloppy mess of
spaghetti code, and poorly organized assets, this dramatically increases
the cost of maintaining, porting, advancing etc.

I guess there is a lot of considerations but it sounds interesting.
I have nothing to sell, but I would wan't to buy something like that.
If you find one and want a partner PM me. 

You can see examples of my work on my website www.repulse.com

[Bricabrac]

I never thought about buying an Indie IP, it doesn't really feel profitable. However, I think making a game related to a popular webcomic/podcast/book could be a nice adventure! Kickstarters for games based on webcomics often went well - think about Homestuck and Starfighter.
(The Homestuck game then became a jumbled mess, but let's not talk about that).
Also, games related to written medium often are visual novels or text-heavy adventures, which to me seem a bit easier to make than say, a full-fledged platformer or action game.

The downside: you'll have to work closely with the autor, and try to follow his/her vision. It could be nice, it could be a nightmare. Lone creators can be pretty obxonous when someone makes stuff related to their stories. However, if you really really like their work, it could be worth a try.

(I'm actually dreaming about making a Welcome to Night Vale game. Such a great setting.)

[JustColorado]

I think making a game related to a popular webcomic/podcast/book could be a nice adventure!

Yes that sounds good too. 

Books, comics, fantasy, sci fi, manga, visual novels. 
I thought stanley parable was a great game.  When I didn't see it on mobile,
I said... Oh I could port that for them soo easily.  Maybe I should call them and work out a deal.
Then I read this article:  http://www.galactic-cafe.com/2012/08/stanley-iphone-cancellation/
That story illustrates how it can go wrong.  I am sure it was a bad experience on both sides.

Here is my guess at how to make the evaluation equation. And this can work for licensing too.
But in most cases, it doesn't lead to anything where I can see both sides going for it.

Projections = how much revenue you project will come in from the existing fanbase
Budget = how much it will cost you to build what you want. 
IP = how much you can save on the budget by recycling items code, assets, etc
GoodProfitMargin = Projections * 0.3

If Projections - (Budget - IP) => GoodProfitMargin
     {MakeAProposal();}
Else
     {WalkAway();}


And this forumula is the reason I always talk myself out of it.

The most I could reasonably offer to pay if I want to make a profit is some small portion of GoodProfitMargin.
So if the IP has a following that will probably bring in a million in sales.  The number I could offer must be
much much smaller.  10 cents on the dollar if even.   I think Most devs would balk to sell a potential million
dollar product for pennies on the dollar.

And even if they did want to sell it.  Lets say it had a 1 million dollar projection.  And I convinced myself I could
buy the IP for $100,000 then do the work, then pay my staff, then pay myself and then still make a profit.

That $100,000 is worse than 100% risk, because I can easily lose that plus the cost of developing.  Losses like that take the fun out of making games.  My hobby that I love so much might not be fun anymore in that situation.  And, I can think of much more creative ways to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

So when I look at all these numbers, I always talk myself out of it and invest elsewhere.

If you throw in the dying revenue from the existing game, I don't see things changing 
unless one side gets ripped off.
If you buy future revenue of $1,000,000 for $1,000,000 the equation I
outlined is still exactly the same.  But your fixed risk goes up.

Maybe I am just a chicken and that is why after 4 years, I am still just a hobbyist. 
 Maybe my formula is not right and I am missing something. 

If anyone can show me a formula that works out for both sides please enlighten me.