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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingDual Wielded - Is it worth it to work on it?
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Author Topic: Dual Wielded - Is it worth it to work on it?  (Read 1359 times)
atcolombini
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« on: April 19, 2016, 04:45:30 PM »

Hi everyone!

I've made this game for the LOWREZJAM16 (yes, yet another tiny screen game), but as I was working on it I had the feeling the display was too small for the movement mechanics, which is the most innovative thing in the game. I wanted to keep the design simple and somewhat elegant, so the only thing you can do is shoot your guns.

As I've showed it to people around me, and after a little feedback through gamejolt and itch, I think it could make a funny local multiplayer or even an interesting platformer if the display was bigger and it had some overall polish. It might also get better with some action, as for now it's mostly an exploration game with a funny movement system.

It's themed as a cowgirl with a pair of guns because it was also made as an entry for the Wild West Jam.

You can give it a try here:
https://atcolombini.itch.io/dual-wielded



So, my question is: is it worth it to put more time into this game jam entry and make it bigger (both in gameplay and display) and better?

Any other feedback will be much appreciated, about any aspect of the game.

Thanks for your time!
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Quicksand-S
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 12:38:27 AM »

Well, I've seen games that used recoil for movement, but they always had mouse-controlled aiming. I found it hard to get a feel for this style of control, because about 60% of the time, the guns didn't fire, and some of the time they didn't produce any recoil.

I think that having two guns that can be used independently as "thrusters" could be pretty interesting if you did develop it a bit more. I imagine it as an exploration-based action-platformer (trying to figure out how to get to different areas by using the recoil properly), but you may be right that multiplayer could be crazy fun too.

As I said, it's hard to say whether or not it would be fun because the controls just aren't working reliably for me. Maybe consider a prototype with a larger view, improved control and maybe some simple goals (collectables in tricky-to-get-to areas that you can try to reach and/or shoot at).

Btw, I like the look of it and the different positions the arms can be in are cool (Like when both arms are facing the same direction with one arm below the other. Nice touch).
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atcolombini
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 01:45:13 AM »

Well, I've seen games that used recoil for movement, but they always had mouse-controlled aiming. I found it hard to get a feel for this style of control, because about 60% of the time, the guns didn't fire, and some of the time they didn't produce any recoil.

I think that having two guns that can be used independently as "thrusters" could be pretty interesting if you did develop it a bit more. I imagine it as an exploration-based action-platformer (trying to figure out how to get to different areas by using the recoil properly), but you may be right that multiplayer could be crazy fun too.

As I said, it's hard to say whether or not it would be fun because the controls just aren't working reliably for me. Maybe consider a prototype with a larger view, improved control and maybe some simple goals (collectables in tricky-to-get-to areas that you can try to reach and/or shoot at).

Btw, I like the look of it and the different positions the arms can be in are cool (Like when both arms are facing the same direction with one arm below the other. Nice touch).

You're absolutely right about the control, it's the first item in my ToDo list, as I've been told that by most of the people who have tried it. Before posting it I'd already lost the perspective, as I've played it a lot while testing and got used its lack of responsiveness.

I'll make some improvements after the voting period of the Jam. I hope that will let the dust settle a bit and make me recover some of that perspective and look at it with new eyes when I come back to work on it.

I also think the screen should be bigger as that would allow me more freedom towards gameplay and level design, and maybe to have moving enemies and/or hazards. This would maybe need a way to tell the player where the shot will hit, and that could allow to add some juice to the shooting, which needs a lot of it right now.

I've also been told it's frustrating to move only in the air, so I'm also considering to add slide movement while she's on the floor. Right now it slides sometimes, but that's just a bug.

Thanks for your feedback!
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P-Flute
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2016, 08:25:06 AM »

Already commented on itch.io, but I'll mirror what Quicksand said. This could be fun! Just the basics need to be tuned up to make a proper call on it. Like the sprite work!

I'm not sure if not being able to slide along the ground is really a giant issue, though. It just depends on what kind of gameplay you want to focus on.
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atcolombini
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2016, 01:33:26 PM »

Already commented on itch.io, but I'll mirror what Quicksand said. This could be fun! Just the basics need to be tuned up to make a proper call on it. Like the sprite work!

I'm not sure if not being able to slide along the ground is really a giant issue, though. It just depends on what kind of gameplay you want to focus on.

Thank you for commenting there :D

I'll make tests with the slide because it can be useful in tight spaces, but as you say, it depends more on the gameplay and I'm still not sure of what I'm going to aim for, in that field, but this as soon as I can borrow some time I'll try some ideas and post my conclusions that's something I need to address ASAP, just after fixing the response of the keys.

I already had a hard time figuring out what to do with this mechanic during the LOWREZJAM, and I'm sure it has more potential than flying around shooting crates, it could be that plus some skill challenges, but with the tiny screen space with which the jam constrained the game it was hard to make something enjoyable in that sense. Maybe just not the right game or character size for this jam, but I don't really care about this right now, because using a bigger screen is on the list too and it will affect the other changes.

Again, thanks for the feedback!
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atcolombini
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2016, 10:02:36 AM »

I've updated the game with a change in control responsiveness: now you just need to press the button to shoot instead of pressing and releasing, and also it detects the keys better than before. It loses some of the cool factor of pointing the weapon before shooting, but I think the mechanic is easier and funnier to use now.

I've also changed the display, now you can see more of what's around you.

Let me know what you think if you play it [:

https://atcolombini.itch.io/dual-wielded

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P-Flute
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2016, 09:48:10 AM »

It's a real improvement!  Coffee I got to the actual end this time. Last time I thought it just ended at the respawning red crates?

I still probably couldn't make a call on whether or not I'd take the project all the way. Feels like it needs more exploration about where the heart of the gameplay lies. But I like what you've done. Grin
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atcolombini
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2016, 01:52:44 AM »

It's a real improvement!  Coffee I got to the actual end this time. Last time I thought it just ended at the respawning red crates?

I still probably couldn't make a call on whether or not I'd take the project all the way. Feels like it needs more exploration about where the heart of the gameplay lies. But I like what you've done. Grin

Thanks!

You're right, I need to focus the gameplay and I'm lost trying to do it. I've not really spent the time it needs, but I sure will, and see what I can do with the game, mostly because I like and had good feedback on the main mechanic and I wouldn't like to see that go to waste.

Maybe I just need to ask for more feedback and even redo some stuff to fully embrace the potential of the mechanic.
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P-Flute
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 09:23:52 AM »

Have you identified an ideal control setup, if the keyboard-only isn't it? I could see something like this fitting a twin-stick gamepad pretty well. Could help smooth out the basics more.

I'm actually wondering if travelling/platforming would be more fun with this sort of setup than just shooting things? Maybe try a more open level and focus on that, and then see if there are some enemy/objectives you can create that generate interesting/fun player movement behavior.
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Silkworm
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2016, 07:16:48 AM »

Hey that was pretty fun! Yeah thruster based controls has been done before but this take feels pretty fresh and I like the western theme. Since it's about guns an shootin', it would be interesting to see how it would feel with enemies and combat thrown in there. It doesn't have to be the main focus though if you aim more toward exploration. And yes multiplayer would be cool too! Imagine 20 people all zipping around Tongue. That would require online implementation though and it's probably not a priority right now. 
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atcolombini
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2016, 06:01:20 AM »

Have you identified an ideal control setup, if the keyboard-only isn't it? I could see something like this fitting a twin-stick gamepad pretty well. Could help smooth out the basics more.

I'm actually wondering if travelling/platforming would be more fun with this sort of setup than just shooting things? Maybe try a more open level and focus on that, and then see if there are some enemy/objectives you can create that generate interesting/fun player movement behavior.

I originally thought of using the gamepad sticks but I didn't have mine available and the control was bugged because I coudn't test it so I removed it. It was also the cause of the lag in the controls, because I was relying on the Unity Input class to get the axises.

About the kind of gameplay I want for the game I think maybe moving mor than shooting stuff is a great idea.

Thanks for your reply!
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atcolombini
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2016, 10:37:10 PM »

Hey that was pretty fun! Yeah thruster based controls has been done before but this take feels pretty fresh and I like the western theme. Since it's about guns an shootin', it would be interesting to see how it would feel with enemies and combat thrown in there. It doesn't have to be the main focus though if you aim more toward exploration. And yes multiplayer would be cool too! Imagine 20 people all zipping around Tongue. That would require online implementation though and it's probably not a priority right now. 

I'm happy you liked it, I'll update when I have more to show.

Yes, 20 people could be crazy but, as you said, I was thinking in local multiplayer. But I'd really like to try things like that. Someone on itch commented it would be nice to make something like Nidhogg, as the western and the duels fit well together.

Sadly, at the moment I barely have time to work on it, but I'll work some more on this game in the future for sure.

Thanks for your reply!
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Alec S.
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2016, 11:55:36 AM »

I think you've got a good start here.  Maybe throw a few simple enemy types in there to get more of a feel for how combat works with this control scheme.

This might just be me, but I'd like to see it a bit less floaty.  Like, instead of shooting a bunch to build up thrust, each shot pushes you quickly in that direction for a short amount of time (Like, more thrust, but also more friction.  Like I said, I could be wrong about that, but it might be worth playing around with).  I also though it was weird that I couldn't launch myself left or right when I was on the ground.

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atcolombini
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2016, 12:43:24 PM »

I think you've got a good start here.  Maybe throw a few simple enemy types in there to get more of a feel for how combat works with this control scheme.

This might just be me, but I'd like to see it a bit less floaty.  Like, instead of shooting a bunch to build up thrust, each shot pushes you quickly in that direction for a short amount of time (Like, more thrust, but also more friction.  Like I said, I could be wrong about that, but it might be worth playing around with).  I also though it was weird that I couldn't launch myself left or right when I was on the ground.



I'll put some basic enemies to try. Right now I'm working in some other projects and I don't have time . But that's my intended next step and I'll upload and post it as soon as I do it.

I don't know about the floatiness, but you might be right about the slow starting thurst, I'll sure try and play with that too.

Right now I'm limiting the speed because if I don't, the player might get confused, but maybe I can compensate this by making the screen size even bigger to allow more chaotic  gameplay and move the camera to give the player more control of where he is moving and, even though it might get difficult to balance the playability, that could also add more fun and action to the gameplay and give more sense to the appearence of enemies as a part of it.

I don't know, just brainstorming ideas :D

Thanks for the feedback!
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AnaGuillenFdez
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2016, 01:16:55 PM »

I tried the game, it was funny, and the main mechanic is pretty interesting. It needs some more investigation though, I like the fact that you use WASD and IJKL but it was a bit hard when I tried to move slower (I admit that I needed to get all the coins  Corny Laugh)

But answering you question, I think that yes, it is worth working on it, because the game has a really original mechanic which can be explored, you can try to improve it, you can also find different uses for the dual-gun flying. It is risky, but if you do well it can become a great game, and of course if things don't work as expected at least the experimentation process will make you improve as a designer. Maybe it is best to wait until it is developed a bit more if you are looking for funding but as a personal project I find it very positive. Keep it up, you have something there.

By the way, local multiplayer would be funny, as long as it is played with controller (with keyboard, I think it could be played by only two people...)
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« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2016, 12:07:53 AM »

very vierd...
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