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[michaelgabrielr]

"Dark Souls, where do I start..."
-VaatiVidya

Here's one for you:
Name the traits that every good Souls-like should have.
What things would make it great and what might ruin the experience?
What things are mandatory and what things can be experimented with?
Fashion souls?
Specific covenant types, weapons, world structure or game mechanics?
Let me know.

Also, this is the best place to gush about the entire series (Demon's Souls and Bloodborne included), so... type away!
Of course, the best comment will be the most insightful one, something that would help indie developers.

Personally, I like the combat.
Meaning, that it's usually more strategy than sheer numbers (that's why I hate the 4 kings fight with a passion).
Widn-ups, parries, blocking, telegraphing and dodging moves - not just two characters standing in front of each other taking turns to hit each other.

Also, covenants. (and online in general)
The basic idea is excellent but it felt bare-bones to me when it came to the execution.
I thing there is so much vast possibility when it comes to online interaction in general.
And what about you?
Do you have a covenant idea you always wanted to see, but never seen it implemented yet?

Cheers!

-Mike

[s0]

hi hello i imported the asian version of demon's souls back in 2009 and have been a huge fan of these games since then.

to me, the #1 best thing about the souls games is that they are (imo) the most convincing fusion of action and rpg mechanics that currently exists. the combat mechanics on their own are very good, but the context they're given through the extensive character customization and the lore/setting is what gives them that extra push, the "fashion souls" aspect is also part of that. there are probably games that have more robust combat and games that are better RPGs, but no game lets you roleplay through fighting like souls does. it's actually remarkable how many varied experiences there are and how "personal" each playthrough feels given that the games consist of mainly hacking up zombies with big swords and are 99% static (except for multiplayer ofc).

i guess the best way explain the difference between souls and other action rpgs is: action rpgs are for the most part either rpgs with (mostly lackluster) realtime combat or action games with levelups (e.g. diablo). souls is like someone took a full fledged oldschool rpg and stuffed it inside an action game framework (or the other way around) if you catch my drift.

i could type a lot more but that's it for now.

[s0]

btw, i just saw this article on RPS: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/05/06/dark-souls-iii-difficulty-newcomer

Adam: I think a lot of it comes down to its apparent genre and the aesthetic. It’s a weird slant on the kind of fantasy worlds that populate Dungeons and Dragons and so many other RPGs, but it’s still recognisable. It’s a game where you play a knight or a wizard or a barbarian, and then you hit monsters with swords and spells until they fall over. And it’s an RPG.

Anyone who likes those things – and that’s a huge portion of the people who play PC games – might look at Dark Souls and think, “this is for me”. And it is, in many cases. But its combat system and the way that it treats death and levelling up, and even traversing the world and making choices, are so peculiar that it doesn’t fit into the genre quite as neatly as people might expect. On some levels, it’s far more abstract than a typical RPG and on others it’s far more tangible – the combat, for instance, is more like a beat ‘em up than a traditional RPG, in terms of the importance of positioning, parries and movement rather than stats and skillsets. Those things matter as well, but it’s an action game in a way that Dragon Age or Baldur’s Gate aren’t.

[JWK5]

The setting and combat are nice and all but I know one thing that really appeals to me with the games is the gambling nature of it. It gives the game a real sense of loss especially in the early hours of the game.

You're constantly weighing going a little further to find that next bit of treasure (or whatever) against the threat of what you've built up thus far, it reminds me a lot of early JRPGs like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy (the NES ones) where over time the dungeons deplete more and more of your resources and you're constantly balancing pushing forward against the increasing difficulty of making an escape (since going back means wading through more enemies).

I got this vibe recently by playing Fallout 4 on the new survival mode. Not being able to save unless I find a bed and rest means pushing forward gets riskier and riskier and the amount of gameplay I will have to redo on death gets more and more. It makes every firefight tense, and causes me to move much more deliberately and carefully. The lack of fast travel also raises the stakes a bit because you can't just immediately retreat to safety, instead you can wind up thirsty, hungry, sleep-deprived, and crippled just barely hobbling your way back to safety.

I think that is what the Souls games do best, they give actual stakes rather than just conveniently dropping you off at a checkpoint or something. I think in that regard Demon's Souls did it better than the later games because the bonfires were much more spaced so there was a lot more tension the further you got (though I think the later games in the series manage the later half of the games better).

With the action-oriented gameplay I think the Souls games are a lot better in the early game where every battle is near life and death, with an almost Bushido Blade feel, but by the late game it just becomes more hack-and-slash-and-blast like other action games. Either way, the action is fun all the way through and complements the raised stakes nicely.

Story-wise and whatnot the Souls games are pretty good at dropping bread crumbs but I don't like that they never really lead you to an actual meal, you pretty much start on bread crumbs and end on bread crumbs and with any of the Souls games I don't feel like I've gotten enough out of the story at its conclusion. I don't want to have to scour the internet for speculation, I want a well-composed story (not to say it has to be doled out in cut scenes or such). What is there is interesting, don't get me wrong, I just don't really like how sparsely it is delivered. This is my personal opinion of course, so I understand if others disagree.

Anyways, I don't know about the traits of a "perfect Souls-like", but focusing on the gambling nature of the raised stakes is essential. There are a lot of different game mechanics you can wrap around it, but having it is what will keep things tense and deliberate.

[BeeZee]

I'd love to see durability get axed. Nioh's alpha is promising, but the durability mechanic is super tedious. Souls has made it not-tedious by essentially nerfing it to the point where it might as well not exist. I think that's a sign that it needs to go.

[quantumpotato]

"Grit" seems to be a defining characteristic.. things I would change about Souls to make it even grittier:

* Remove Boss HP bar.
* Remove stat infos on weapons. Annoying calculating which weapon does more damage when they're all good.
* Make weapons FPS like. If you die, respawn with none and you gotta go get your weapon back from the enemy who took it! See an enemy with a cool axe or spear? Take them down and you can have it!

I found the min-maxing and UI getting in the way of my experience. Would prefer total immersion -- show which item I currently have selected on my character's belt so I can scroll through without an awkward UI in the way.