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[yopablo]

Hi,

I have been reading an article about a recent scientific publication about how the facial bone structure may influence how people see you and I was wondering if some of you have tried to design the physical aspect of your characters using this kind of information.

Study link: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/your-facial-bone-structure-has-a-big-influence-on-how-people-see-you/

Regards,

Pablo.

 

[Valakanaraga]

Interesting if true. It is common wisdom among veteran developers to never fight human nature but I wonder about the cultural consequences of mass media making use of this knowledge. While one can consciously alter their face to appear friendlier many people have faces which appear to be angry and so untrustworthy in their natural state. Brows in particular differ heavily between ethnic groups. Designing characters in such a way that most of the villains have "angry" facial features may perpetuate prejudice against people with similar facial features at a subconscious level.

Humans have many primal psychological tendencies. Some are set while others can be altered by culture. Rather than employing them it might be the responsibility of artists to subvert them as to pasteurize society against them if such a thing is at all possible.

[oahda]

Valakanaraga is on to something. I think it's better to try to work against this sort of stuff. Because as the article itself says, it's about how people see you, not about how you actually are. Stressing this is much more important.

[2mass]

Hmmm.. I thought phrenology was a "science" long gone into oblivion..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

[oahda]

Hmmm.. I thought phrenology was a "science" long gone into oblivion..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

This seems to be about people's faulty prejudices about facial features tho.

So it's not that the features can scientifically determine what people are like, but that there is solid statistical evidence that a lot of people (incorrectly) perceive people differently based on their features. I can buy that.

But what I take away from that is that I should be making a gentle character with an "angry" face to oppose these prejudices, not that I should tag along with them and make the person with the "angry" face actually violent. That seems very hurtful.

[2mass]

Hmmm.. I thought phrenology was a "science" long gone into oblivion..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

This seems to be about people's faulty prejudices about facial features tho.

Such was phrenology, albeit in another manner of course. Granted. In any case, then I can't help but to call the human subjectivity factor on this, like I would on phrenology. People will come to trust what they have experienced as beneficial, and vice versa with mistrust.

[oahda]

Well, the difference seems to be that this is a study on what prejudices people have (acknowledging them as such) whereas phrenology seems to have been claiming the prejudices were actually true?

[yopablo]

Yes, Valakanaraga, nice point.

[2mass]

Well, the difference seems to be that this is a study on what prejudices people have (acknowledging them as such) whereas phrenology seems to have been claiming the prejudices were actually true?

This is one small step away from phrenology tho, the phrenology can easily step aboard when you have to explain why the study groups found a significance on certain traits. Why do people respond as such by those traits if they are learned by experience? Don't try. It will sound as stupid as the initial hypothesis. And as long as they haven't showed me the sample size, then I know it has to be rather significantly huge to approach 7 billion. I strongly doubt it's there. Humans is a wicked size to deal with.

If I were to use something in games, something I consider scientific enough for the task, then I would use Evolutionary Psychology instead.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology - it has some Darwinistic traits that you have to settle with in advance, but it also holds some funny explanations to various fears. Like that of spiders, or that of heights.

[Shine Klevit]

Why not use this to subvert expectations? If it creates a sense of prejudice in the player, manipulation of that prejudice in a way that makes the player confront his or her own.

With that said, it doesn't seem very easy on a technical level to do this, and I wouldn't make it my biggest priority. Unless, of course, you have an idea of how it can really be done well enough to be a good focal point of the whole experience.

[yopablo]

With that said, it doesn't seem very easy on a technical level to do this, and I wouldn't make it my biggest priority

Why do you said that it doesn't seem very easy?

[JWK5]

Put to use any potential tools you come across, see if it works for yourself.

When working with 2D art (drawing, painting, pixel art, etc.) information like this can be useful to keep in mind. It doesn't mean you have to resort to stereotypes or a sort of "typecasting" but it does arm you with hints about what you may be projecting or expressing with the character unintentionally.

There are times, for example, like where maybe you are trying to make a character look soft and caring but they have this menacing look to them you can't put your finger on and it seems like no matter how you adjust the character just has that sinister twinge about them. Information like this can help illuminate little quirks popping up like that since it is giving a little insight on how we see things. That doesn't mean that everything it illuminates will make you comfortable, art has a funny way of bringing to the surface all sorts of assumptions, bias, prejudices, etc. that were hidden subtly below (which we all have, there is no real avoiding it though you can always address it work to be aware of it). Either way, unearthing the source of these quirks is useful.

I wouldn't be quick to accept or discount any information like this, but like I said your best bet is to put it to work and see for yourself. If it works, and produces results you want, then it is a useful bit of information and a useful tool in your creative toolbox.

[2mass]

Put to use any potential tools you come across, see if it works for yourself.

When working with 2D art (drawing, painting, pixel art, etc.) information like this can be useful to keep in mind. It doesn't mean you have to resort to stereotypes or a sort of "typecasting" but it does arm you with hints about what you may be projecting or expressing with the character unintentionally.

There are times, for example, like where maybe you are trying to make a character look soft and caring but they have this menacing look to them you can't put your finger on and it seems like no matter how you adjust the character just has that sinister twinge about them. Information like this can help illuminate little quirks popping up like that since it is giving a little insight on how we see things. That doesn't mean that everything it illuminates will make you comfortable, art has a funny way of bringing to the surface all sorts of assumptions, bias, prejudices, etc. that were hidden subtly below (which we all have, there is no real avoiding it though you can always address it work to be aware of it). Either way, unearthing the source of these quirks is useful.

I wouldn't be quick to accept or discount any information like this, but like I said your best bet is to put it to work and see for yourself. If it works, and produces results you want, then it is a useful bit of information and a useful tool in your creative toolbox.

I agree that it shouldn't be dismissed altogether, but I just think that it's way more complex than they line up here.. You can't just say that lifted eyebrows and a smile is trustworthy..



Nor that a wide face indicates "competence". I don't even know where to start there, but I certainly don't see a correlation between having a wide or fat face, and being especially more competent than the anyone else at anything special. Any takers?

[JWK5]

That picture you've posted is actually a good example of creating unease through discord. We generally associate the traits of that expression to be of the friendly sort but it is being expressed in a very unfriendly context. The character he is playing is a psychopath, and the expression plays into this through that discord. It should mean friendly, but the context is not friendly, something is definitely wrong (I mean, aside from the axe). Emotional discord is a pretty useful tool to have as an artist to really add punch to a scene.

The whole wide-face bit and whatnot I think is debatable, because for some cultures a wide facial structure is more common where in others a narrow facial structure is more common. I would imagine the interpretation of facial width would vary by culture. I notice in Japanese anime for example, that a long slender face usually belongs to wiser and more authoritative characters while in western animation it tends to belong to more sinister or sneaky characters (like Jafar in Aladdin or Cruella Deville).

Like I said, it is all an idea you should experiment with and explore as an artist. Not necessarily to reach the conclusions the article did, but to take its idea and reach your own conclusions about it (and develop your own understandings from it). You should take every opportunity to expand your creative toolset you get.

[2mass]

Yes, well, it was just a demonstration to show, that it takes many more parameters than a smile and some lifted eyebrows.. We read into everything in the surroundings as well..



Would you like to buy a new Canon printer?

You get the drift

[Shine Klevit]

With that said, it doesn't seem very easy on a technical level to do this, and I wouldn't make it my biggest priority

Why do you said that it doesn't seem very easy?

Because seeing an artistic representation of a human face creates an entirely different effect than actually seeing one. Of course, there are psychological effects of seeing certain shapes, and how people humanize them. However, distinctive human features require a higher level of detail.

Honestly, I think there are probably some more impressionist tricks that are much easier to pull off, and have a much greater effect.