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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralMan vs Machine
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Skamlen
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« on: May 09, 2016, 01:17:03 AM »

Hi guys!

We posted a questionnaire about AI, for our bachelor project, on this forum a few months ago, and are very happy for the feedback we got. Now we need some data of people's performance in our own version of Pacman (it's a bit unforgivning with collisions Wink, and very simple. No sounds, simple sprites and so on).

It would mean a lot to us if you would download and play our game (takes about 5 - 10 minutes). When you're done, you're asked to save a file. Save this file and send it to my mail; [email protected] If we ever make a finished product, you will get our product for free as a thanks!

Please send your results from your first playthrough (10 rounds), we are interested in your honest results!

link (windows only): https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/c16febaf223b59f0f6a21a37e051085f20160508134542/38529d
virus scan: https://www.virustotal.com/da/file/a842b1baea114a00886fc3881292e9a29ab41351484b3bd776f1e12b7acc5c88/analysis/1462795232/

Hope it's not the wrong forum, playtesting didn't seem right, but maybe we're wrong Smiley

Thanks in advance!

Kindly,
Benjamin


http://imgur.com/3i95A78
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 04:03:58 AM by Skamlen » Logged
Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2016, 02:17:51 AM »

Would probably be a good idea to include some screenshots. I think most people are reluctant (and rightfully so) to download and run an executable without knowing all too much about it.
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Skamlen
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2016, 02:35:54 AM »

Oh yeah, of course! Thank you.
But it's just a screenshot of the game. You have any suggestions of how we can ensure people that they can trust us ?  Smiley
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:51:40 AM by Skamlen » Logged
2mass
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2016, 03:05:35 AM »

Just something that sprung to mind, but perhaps you could post the scan result from a online virus/spyware scanner here, and a link. Then people can see for themselves. Just an idea. May be a bit redundant. In my mind.
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2mass
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2016, 03:17:34 AM »

Actually, the only reason that I'm not too keen on trying it on myself, is because it sounds - on hold - like you wanna stress my computer with a Pac Man clone, and I do my fair share of stress testing my computer myself hehe

Seriously, couldn't you get these stats online more or less for free? There must be tons of software companies in dire need of such stats all the time, so good stats must at least be up for sale? And no, I haven't Google'd it, because I usually don't make heavy stuff myself.
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Skamlen
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2016, 03:57:19 AM »

Thank you for your feedback. The problem is we've made our own version of Pacman, to develop our self learning AI. So for us to use data from other Pacman games, that our AI is not able to play is not a good comparison Smiley. Though better than have no data, haha. We would need to find both an open source Pacman AND data about people's performance in that game. And in the correct programming languages as well. But we might need to do something else, if we cant get people to download an exe. Though, they do it all the time on sites like Gamejolt Smiley

Idk, will a screenshot of my virus scan make it more believable? :D
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2016, 04:00:07 AM »

If it's a uni project couldn't you host it on your uni's server? That would make it look a lot more legit. Also use a .edu email address if possible. Most unis provide some free hosting space and email to students. Plus if you could find some way to make this playable in a browser you would get a lot more participants.

Best of luck with your project. Smiley
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2mass
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2016, 04:03:33 AM »

Thank you for your feedback. The problem is we've made our own version of Pacman, to develop our self learning AI. So for us to use data from other Pacman games, that our AI is not able to play is not a good comparison Smiley. Though better than have no data, haha. We would need to find both an open source Pacman AND data about people's performance in that game. And in the correct programming languages as well. But we might need to do something else, if we cant get people to download an exe. Though, they do it all the time on sites like Gamejolt Smiley

Idk, will a screenshot of my virus scan make it more believable? :D
Aaah, you want us to teach your A.I. how to play. Sounds like some variant of a neural network. Sadly, I suck at pac man, I would give your A.I. delusions of grandeur :D

I don't know how you can make it seem more legit, apart from what I and silbereisen have said. But if people are worried about spyware or backdoors or something, then you can at least give them the link to the scanner you used online, as I said.

Best of luck with your A.I. project, sounds like a fun idea Smiley
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Skamlen
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2016, 04:08:23 AM »

Thanks to the both of you. Unfortunately our Uni dont have such services Sad I've replaced my mail, with my student mail. I've also linked to a finished scan of the file.

Actually, we dont want you to train it, we want to compare your skills with our AIs' skills Wink But you're right that we are using NN among other methods of Machine Learning. Smiley



We've tried the browser thing, but we cant make it work in HTML unfortunately. But maybe we should try more, the reason we gave it up is due to the time we have left. We still need to write a paper, haha.
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Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2016, 06:31:34 AM »

I'm gonna give it a go later tonight.

Hand Metal Left Dobbelt A Hand Metal Right
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Skamlen
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2016, 06:55:51 AM »

That would be great! Worst case, I live in Copenhagen as well, so you can just come by and try it here Grin Haha
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2mass
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2016, 07:31:03 AM »

I tried your game now. Can confirm that it's legit and all. But the ghosts are pretty easy and appears to be quite random, I must admit that I got tired in the fingers and didn't play all fair since I began to chase the ghosts and stuff, to see if I could Tongue

I'm from Copenhagen too, btw. You can have my data if you wish, but it's not played all fairly, and my fingers are fucked now haha..

Here's the data if you want it anyway..

15, 0, 0, 438, 0, 0
151, 1, 0, 3847, 4, 7
101, 1, 0, 2625, 3, 2
13, 0, 0, 312, 0, 0
43, 1, 0, 965, 1, 1
9, 2, 0, 201, 0, 0
16, 0, 0, 313, 0, 0
129, 1, 0, 3153, 4, 2
45, 2, 0, 938, 1, 1
19, 1, 0, 337, 0, 0

Thumbs up for using Game Maker btw, I just finished my own first Gamer Maker game Smiley
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Skamlen
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2016, 07:52:37 AM »

Thank you, appreciate it! Are everyone on this forum from CPH?  Beer! Cheesy

The Ghosts are only random when they are scared. Smiley

When you say fairly, what do you mean exactly? I see you didn't win any of the rounds  Wink

Oh cool, we've made this both for GM and Unity. We hope to make extensions for both engines.

I've worked a lot in GameMaker, and my next one will be my 10th published game. I really like the engine, despite a lot of developers hating a bit on it. I dont regret buying the Masters Collection Smiley
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2mass
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2016, 08:20:54 AM »

Haha, yea, I didn't win any of the rounds. Sounds pretty much like me, I'm used to playing pac man with a controller or a stick (= old dude).. My fingers actually got pretty tired fast from using the arrow keys with my mouse hand. But rest assure that that's just me. I play very few games with the arrow keys. Actually, none.

And fun-fun, I use exactly Unity and GM too. Unity is pretty cool as well, in its own rights. It depends on what you're making. My last game was a pure strategy game with no need for 3D features, for instance. So, GM it was. Plus I used to make Flash games, and GM is a lot alike Flash, as I see it.
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Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2016, 09:37:35 AM »

118, 2, 0, 3065, 3, 7
121, 0, 0, 2777, 3, 5
125, 2, 0, 3038, 4, 6
135, 2, 0, 3253, 4, 6
105, 1, 0, 2688, 3, 2
94, 2, 0, 2003, 2, 3
152, -1, 1, 3915, 4, 7
38, 2, 0, 840, 1, 1
152, -1, 1, 3826, 4, 5
152, -1, 1, 3416, 4, 4
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2mass
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« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2016, 10:10:04 AM »

I gave it a more fair shot now, not looking for A.I. and so on, just playing the game. And you're right, the ghost do move as supposed to. I still suck tho, but these stats are more fair to all parties.

81, 2, 0, 1942, 2, 2
140, 0, 0, 4161, 3, 4
42, 2, 0, 1299, 1, 3
39, 1, 0, 817, 0, 0
87, 1, 0, 1847, 1, 3
129, 0, 0, 4145, 4, 2
38, 1, 0, 818, 1, 0
117, 0, 0, 2807, 3, 5
86, 2, 0, 1809, 0, 0
152, -1, 1, 3991, 4, 2

I feel like I have to mention tho, that I won one out of ten rounds or so there, but I have no problem with winning a round in Pacman Championship edition DX+ which my gf has on steam, if you know that one. I'm hardly a champ, but I don't lose 9/10 rounds either Smiley
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Skamlen
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« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2016, 11:25:19 AM »

Oh, thats great! It means a lot to us! Smiley

Ahh, i see. Never thought about using a controller to play it.

Sounds awesome, do you have a link to the game? Of course i would never do a 3D in GM either. Unity and GM are both great at different things. My games just fits better with GM i guess. I would love to be able to use standard c#/c++ or java in GM though. It's annoying that you are forced to use GML.

I never tried flash, i guess it got a bit outdated before i got into games Wink

Yeah, the 3 ghosts we have actually move almost like the ones in the real Pac-Man, except when they are scared. Also, their are other details as speed, when the ghosts start to chase, chase time and so on. Thats why we need to test with THIS Pac-Man. We are not able to test our self-learning AI with the original Pac-Man.

So for different design purposes, the game is as it is. Pac-Man like, but not identical. We just needed a simple, though not too simple game to test how well our AI performes, vs how well human players performes.

Our Pac-Man IS pretty difficult  Smiley

But once again, thank you! We really neeed this data, so we can show the teachers at the exam how awesome our AI is, haha Wink
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 11:30:53 AM by Skamlen » Logged
mtarini
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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2016, 12:03:11 PM »

Here!

152, -1, 1, 4119, 4, 7
47, 2, 0, 868, 0, 0
127, 2, 0, 2703, 2, 4
152, -1, 1, 3449, 4, 8
152, -1, 1, 3945, 4, 14
152, -1, 1, 3770, 4, 6
104, 0, 0, 2566, 2, 5
84, 1, 0, 1854, 1, 5
36, 2, 0, 657, 0, 0
130, 0, 0, 3223, 3, 4

good luck with your project...
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2mass
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2016, 12:19:24 PM »

Oh, thats great! It means a lot to us! Smiley

Ahh, i see. Never thought about using a controller to play it.

Sounds awesome, do you have a link to the game? Of course i would never do a 3D in GM either. Unity and GM are both great at different things. My games just fits better with GM i guess. I would love to be able to use standard c#/c++ or java in GM though. It's annoying that you are forced to use GML.

I never tried flash, i guess it got a bit outdated before i got into games Wink

Yeah, the 3 ghosts we have actually move almost like the ones in the real Pac-Man, except when they are scared. Also, their are other details as speed, when the ghosts start to chase, chase time and so on. Thats why we need to test with THIS Pac-Man. We are not able to test our self-learning AI with the original Pac-Man.

So for different design purposes, the game is as it is. Pac-Man like, but not identical. We just needed a simple, though not too simple game to test how well our AI performes, vs how well human players performes.

Our Pac-Man IS pretty difficult  Smiley

But once again, thank you! We really neeed this data, so we can show the teachers at the exam how awesome our AI is, haha Wink
I'm glad you could use the data despite how pathetic my performance was hehe. And here's a link to the game, of course: https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=55451.0 - it's quite new, was rendered finished today actually.
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Skamlen
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2016, 11:51:32 PM »

Here!

152, -1, 1, 4119, 4, 7
47, 2, 0, 868, 0, 0
127, 2, 0, 2703, 2, 4
152, -1, 1, 3449, 4, 8
152, -1, 1, 3945, 4, 14
152, -1, 1, 3770, 4, 6
104, 0, 0, 2566, 2, 5
84, 1, 0, 1854, 1, 5
36, 2, 0, 657, 0, 0
130, 0, 0, 3223, 3, 4

good luck with your project...

Thanks, helps us a lot!

I'm glad you could use the data despite how pathetic my performance was hehe. And here's a link to the game, of course: https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=55451.0 - it's quite new, was rendered finished today actually.

Haha, I definitely can. It's not about performing well or bad Smiley

Oh, it looks cool! Nice art and music. Did you make that yourself (art and music that is)? You should upload it on Gamejolt or something Smiley

Now we just need 15 test results more !  Grin
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