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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperAudioSo Many Composers...
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LeDash
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« on: May 17, 2016, 04:28:53 PM »

So I've been making music for quite a few years now, and more recently decided to try and get into music business in video games. Now, while I have been lucky enough to work on a few projects, I find it almost impossible to find the right job. Everywhere I look, I feel like I just see tons and tons of composers just spamming there portfolio's and music, to a point where I feel like its too much. So I guess what I'm asking is that is there any other way to find the right game projects to work on without shamelessly creating forum posts? And does this constant posting of portfolio's ever even work? I mean, with so many people posting day in and day out, does anyone with a project even read these portfolios, or is all this posting for nothing.

Would love some answers from some more experienced composers. While I've been browsing and working with games for about a year now, I would love to hear some more efficient ways of finding music jobs. Thanks

Chris Heron

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Yellowjacket
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2016, 06:19:11 PM »

This is a great thread.  I studied my ass off in school and I've put a whole tonne of time and energy into becoming the best possible version of myself.

I agree with you, there is a lot of shameless promoting going on and it takes a certain sort of drive to move forward.  I'm in a similar position to you so I can't offer so much advice but I can commiserate.  Definitely there are lots of 'composers' out there but I think as one reaches the elite level, things begin to open up a bit.  I think.... 

As a digression, I've been making it my business to only use legit tools and software as I think that is important to some people in the industry.  Aside from that, going to events and networking face to face is fun and potentially productive.  I also have had some cool connections just being 'friends' with people and not asking game devs to 'put out' on the first date tehehe. 

Definitely interested to hear others chime in!   Shocked
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LeDash
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2016, 07:14:44 PM »

This is a great thread.  I studied my ass off in school and I've put a whole tonne of time and energy into becoming the best possible version of myself.

I agree with you, there is a lot of shameless promoting going on and it takes a certain sort of drive to move forward.  I'm in a similar position to you so I can't offer so much advice but I can commiserate.  Definitely there are lots of 'composers' out there but I think as one reaches the elite level, things begin to open up a bit.  I think.... 

As a digression, I've been making it my business to only use legit tools and software as I think that is important to some people in the industry.  Aside from that, going to events and networking face to face is fun and potentially productive.  I also have had some cool connections just being 'friends' with people and not asking game devs to 'put out' on the first date tehehe. 

Definitely interested to hear others chime in!   Shocked

I agree, it definitely takes alot of drive to move forward. It feels like for every project available you are competing with 100 other people. Not to mention how hard it is just to find a project in need of a composer. Plus, there are all the people who offer their music for free, which I feel really devalues our work.

But i digress. I don't want to turn this thread into an angry rant. lol What are some events that you would reccomend?
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Yellowjacket
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2016, 07:24:46 PM »

I was at MAGfest in Feb.  It was decent and I met a few cool people.  Locally, IGDA meetings are probably pretty useful. GDC and the like are probably pretty good too.  I think the trick is to develop as many industry connections as possible.  Don't just whore yourself out with cards but take the time to chat with people and be interested in them.  But this is likely the blind leading the blind.

RE: free music: It's often pretty er 'plain' sounding and anyone who wants a project to shine will hire someone worth their salt.  Just gotta play the odds  Cheesy
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FelixArifin
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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2016, 07:38:43 PM »

But i digress. I don't want to turn this thread into an angry rant. lol What are some events that you would reccomend?

If there are any that happen around your area, I highly recommend going to Game Jams and registering as a floater! If you're lucky, you could end up working for 5-6 separate games. Though a good majority of them wouldn't be done by the deadline, you'll have some great portfolio pieces, as well as build up a solid reputation!

-Felix
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Michael Klier
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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2016, 11:33:59 PM »

I'm not a composer (occasionally, but no orchestral stuff) but mainly a Sound Designer. There was another thread that was kinda similar. Can't find it atm though. Here's my take on it:

It's not about the people who are working for free or updating forum threads on a 8h schedule (I post once every other month whenever I'm looking for new projects, but nothing has come out of this thus far Wink - and I don't believe that this is working out for these other people either).

If you're doing this full time to actually make a living, no matter the field, it's important to realize that these people are not your competition. By offering work for free they will never reach the clients that you want to work for. Which are the ones that value your work and are ready to pay for it. So why bother.

Finding these kind of clients is not easy though. But they do exist! I also believe that networking in person, especially if your starting out has way more value than doing it online. Go to as many events / game dev meetups / game jams as you can and, as odd as this may sound, be a likeable person Smiley. Show interest in what these people are doing and in return they might become interested in your work as well. Forge alliances with other composers in your area. Start your own meetup. Make connections! These are way more valuable and will pay off more than updating a forum post every 8h.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 12:31:43 AM by Michael Klier » Logged

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2mass
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2016, 11:50:00 PM »

I don't have high expectations or ambitions when it comes to making music for AAA games or the like. I make music for my own games and have done that for more than 15 years now. Game soundtracks is the least of my portfolio tho. If I wanted to make music for AAA games, then I would send my portfolio to the big ones for the heck or it, and use "legit" marketing via Google Adsense and the like. Forum spam hardly works, my experience from other branches is that you need to make legit marketing and not spam. The latter is seen by many as an amateurish trait.
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krides
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2016, 11:59:25 PM »

I'm not a composer or a sound designer (although I work with two of those). Ever since we opened shop as an indie studio, I've been on the receiving end of these solicitations, and I just thought that you might be interested in my perspective (since I'm the guy everybody's pitching their services to).

Our company receives roughly 5 (five) emails from composers and sound designers looking for work every week. We turn all of them down because we already work with two sound designers who have been part of the project since the very beginning. In fact, we're likely to continue to work with the same people on our future projects.

As an indie studio, there's little incentive to have an in-house composer, so it will always be freelance. This, in turn, means that, had we been looking for someone to make the sound for our game, we would've given these email a second look. I would never consider looking at forums, however, because we all know people, and at this point, I've listened to roughly 50 different reels from the individuals who have contacted us directly. I will just choose from this pool.

Now, as a composer, having released complete albums of music might help. I do tend to listen to those. Also, it's a huge plus if you can also do the technical stuff as well as sounds. Small studios usually can't afford both a composer AND a sound designer. Bigger studios (40+ people) can afford everything and more, so, if you prefer to focus on your area, you might want to target those instead.

Many of our friends at other companies, who don't have long-standing ties with people they trust, sometimes go with sound design/composing outsourcing companies like Audio Gaming or Game Audio Factory. With those, you buy a package called "sound for my game." They work fast and have a proven track record, so I understand why many companies prefer this approach.

Hope this helps and good luck!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 04:28:58 AM by krides » Logged

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CBStegeman
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2016, 04:10:51 AM »

The composer Adam Gubman just had a terrific post about finding composing work in the Facebook group Business Skills for Composers. It's a closed group, but all you need to do is request to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/businessskillsforcomposers/

It doesn't boil down to one easy solution unfortunately. Mostly about making real connections over long periods of time (as others in this thread have already mentioned).

I've gotten a few gigs here and there from responding to job listings on TIGForums, Reddit etc., but yeah, it's not a great success rate, since every other composer / sound designer on the internet is also responding to these listings.
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2mass
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2016, 04:27:32 AM »

"It's not who you are it's who you know" - Metallica.
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doghouse
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2016, 04:33:30 AM »

Any freelancer will tell you, at least ones that do well enough, that most new clients come from referalls.

Networking is a great tool.  Learn it and use it.

Ensure you have a great porfolio and a means for it to be found and showcased.

As mentioned, don't concern yourself about every Tom, Dick & Harry selling themselves (short).  Know yourself, know the market (as a freelancer and for clients) and price yourself to reflect your ability and in a way you can survive.

It's never easy starting out, so good luck!

I'm writing this as someone who has done freelance graphic design in the past.  Now, I'm the person that may look for composers in the future.

With that in mind. If I were to look to these forums, I would listen to demo reels.  I would consider the ability of the artist; the sound quality of recording; try to understand the artists design process for clients (I'd want to know what it is); look into previous complete projects; and of course - budgets.

The biggest one is, though, I'd ask around for recommendations first.

That's a few things I'd want to know about a composer (or any freelancer, to be fair).
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MESRecords
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2016, 06:28:25 AM »

Most difficult part is getting started - as in every business. Once you've made your contacts (which can take forever unfortunately) it's not that much of a problem anymore.
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MisfitChris
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2016, 11:00:40 AM »

I've done freelance work on and off. I've worked on some decent projects, ironically not many games. I'm no where near getting consistent work. But I've found most of my success through the following.

Make music for you first. Put your heart and soul into your own projects. This is going to attract listeners. Pay attention to your listeners, connect with your fans. Connect with them on a personal level, become their friend. That's what music is all about at it's core. Sharing your emotions with others and that connection. Over time some of those listeners become contacts because eventually you will befriend someone who makes games or works for a company putting out a commercial, etc.

I also post on game forums during all of this. And I do get emails from smaller companies. Like most people have said. The big breaks come through referrals. That's why putting out music and connecting with your fans is important. Over time that turns into referrals.

I take on smaller projects from time to time. And on smaller projects, If i like what the team is doing. I'll work with in a budget they can afford. Mostly because I know how it is to have a creative dream and how expensive it can be. I'd like to spend my time on this planet creating things with like minded people and although I have to eat and want to be compensated. The experience of making something great with others is more important to me. So i will meet companies half way if they arent some huge corporation. Also this helps with getting your first gigs. You get a little bit of money in your pocket and experience. Friendships as well.

My personal advice is never put yourself in the box of game composer. Just be a composer. Don't limit yourself. Work on music for you as much as you can. Because it will be the most genuine and it's easier for people to connect with. Have fun. Connect with people. Spread positive vibes.

Haven't finished my morning coffee so this is kind of all over the place but. That is my advice.  Coffee
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ArzNova
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2016, 05:39:17 AM »

I think there is no shame in shameless promotion. I've made posts in most major forums and constantly haunt game dev pages and Twitter. I don't message everybody, but I do message every dev who has a game I would enjoy working on that doesn't have a composer or I can't tell if they have one.

I think to divide people getting gigs between composers and 'composers' like Yellowjacket did is way off the mark. Many people work their asses off, and it doesn't matter how much harder you worked than a 'composer' if they're the one that has the gig.

I've found that having a video demo reel with extremely short clips in it dubbed to games (if you don't have a credit yet) is a good way to get people interested. I prefer this over just sending a Soundcloud link, because you can curate, choose what they hear in what order, and choose sections that entice them to hear more. Then under that - and at the end of the video - provide links to your Soundcloud. I've found that if I give a Soundcloud, few people will go on, or they'll only find stuff that doesn't fit. (Nobody has time for ALL of your music.) But if they like your reel, then they're more compelled to hear more and will volunteer their time to listen to your full portfolio.

There's my two cents. It's working so far, and I've found some really great people and projects doing this. Hope it helps!
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2016, 07:15:15 AM »

Great thread! About a year and a half ago I started making music to sell. Sure I had made music for years before, but just some few tracks as a hobby. What I started doing and still are doing is basically just focusing on learning new stuff. That's all I do, learn new stuff. However, I figured i COULD maybe make a little bit of money as well, so at first I uploaded my practice-tracks to royalty free music sites like Audiojungle, Pond5, istockphoto and so on. I never thought I'd actually sell anything, but today these royalty free sites has paid out over 10k$ to me.

After being active on these sites for a couple of months with a few sales, I was contacted by the first game dev that wanted me to make music for him. He found me on one of these sites. So, I did his music for what I thought was a fair price and it was really fun (remember I only had a grasp on the correct pricing for non-exclusive licensing). A couple of months later, another game dev asked me for music, and this time i looked into more correct pricing and I realized that "wow, you could actually make a living on this!". I did their music which took months (they just wanted more and more), and after this I was hooked. I want to make music for games. Custom work and game music is sooo much more fun! So this little journey I've had might help you get some ideas on how you can find clients and expand your business.

However, now as I just finished work for my 4th game client and actually want to hop on the next job right away without waiting, I'm also a bit confused about what to do. I did create a portfolio thread, but I refuse to spam it like so many of these composers do. I totally get how you feel. That being said, I do expect to find a new client shortly. I might be totally wrong, but since so many games seems to have music that sound the f****ng same and doesn't stick out at all, just as all these composers that also sound the same and honestly just plain boring - working in a niche genre and style is probably one of the ways to go. There is soooo many styles of games being made right now, and some of them surely has to fit the vibe of the music style that you personally have passion for right? So market yourself in that niche! As I said, i might be totally wrong. Maybe the larger game developers just want that same boring music, just as all big companies has to have ukulele music in all their dumb commercials.

I still have hope though! My personal niche is retro synth music. 16-bit, 80's synth, 90's digital synth and so on. I love that shit.
I still can't grasp some games though. They make it look super 16-bit / early 90's, then they use like modern folk music for it. So out of place.

Alright, enough ranting. I still need some time to figure out how hard it actually is to find new clients. I hope the best for you!



I think there is no shame in shameless promotion. I've made posts in most major forums and constantly haunt game dev pages and Twitter. I don't message everybody, but I do message every dev who has a game I would enjoy working on that doesn't have a composer or I can't tell if they ha....

This is a great tip, thank you man. I will defenitly make a reel of existing games accompanied by my music.
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