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MYavuz
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« on: June 14, 2016, 08:55:55 AM »

Would it be cool if a game doesn't have a plot and lets player do what he/she wants?
(Actually, i can't find a cool story for my game)
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voidSkipper
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2016, 04:14:04 PM »

I know you're probably quite new to this and this is all stuff that you'll probably figure out on your own but:

In your last thread, you asked if it's okay for a game to have infinite jumps because you can't figure out how to make the player stop jumping when he's not on the ground.

Then in this thread, you've asked if it's okay for your game not to have a plot because you can't think of one.

The answer to both of those questions is "if that's how your game is designed".

But I think you're having trouble with the answer because, if you even need to ask those questions, you probably haven't actually designed your game at all.

What is your game? If the mechanic (jumping etc) doesn't really matter, then it's probably story-driven, so what's the story? If you want the game to be plotless and have the story not matter, then it's probably going to be mechanic-based, so what's the mechanic?

You need to sit down, and come up with an idea of what you want your game to be. This doesn't have to be particularly original, especially if you're a beginner. You could literally just remake Snake and it would still be great practice.

Then, once you've figured out what you want it to be, you need to make it how you designed it, rather than taking the vague notion of making "a game" and then letting it randomly change shape based on what features are too much of a pain for you to learn right now.

I'm not saying a game can't change slightly mid-development based on viability, but we're talking core features here.
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MYavuz
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2016, 05:44:03 PM »

I know you're probably quite new to this and this is all stuff that you'll probably figure out on your own but:

In your last thread, you asked if it's okay for a game to have infinite jumps because you can't figure out how to make the player stop jumping when he's not on the ground.

Then in this thread, you've asked if it's okay for your game not to have a plot because you can't think of one.

The answer to both of those questions is "if that's how your game is designed".

But I think you're having trouble with the answer because, if you even need to ask those questions, you probably haven't actually designed your game at all.

What is your game? If the mechanic (jumping etc) doesn't really matter, then it's probably story-driven, so what's the story? If you want the game to be plotless and have the story not matter, then it's probably going to be mechanic-based, so what's the mechanic?

You need to sit down, and come up with an idea of what you want your game to be. This doesn't have to be particularly original, especially if you're a beginner. You could literally just remake Snake and it would still be great practice.

Then, once you've figured out what you want it to be, you need to make it how you designed it, rather than taking the vague notion of making "a game" and then letting it randomly change shape based on what features are too much of a pain for you to learn right now.

I'm not saying a game can't change slightly mid-development based on viability, but we're talking core features here.
Well, i made all the characters on paper, and made some of the mechanics. But, what really matters for me is the story. But i can't just give the characters i made roles. That's the problem.
(Oh, and also, some -really- kind person on the internet fixed that jump thing. But i  still plan to use that infinite jump thing.)
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alvarop
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2016, 06:27:56 PM »

If the story is what matters to you, then why not work on the game's story and make a game with a plot?

I'm not quite sure about what you're asking, but everything takes work and the story won't come to you just like that. You gotta keep working on it, if that's the game (movie,book,song,wtv) you wanna make.

If you don't want infinite jumps in your game, learn how to make normal jumps. There are so many resources out there. If you don't know where to look for them, maybe that's where you gotta start.
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MYavuz
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2016, 06:50:05 PM »

If the story is what matters to you, then why not work on the game's story and make a game with a plot?

I'm not quite sure about what you're asking, but everything takes work and the story won't come to you just like that. You gotta keep working on it, if that's the game (movie,book,song,wtv) you wanna make.

If you don't want infinite jumps in your game, learn how to make normal jumps. There are so many resources out there. If you don't know where to look for them, maybe that's where you gotta start.
Hm... I was just asking would it be okay if i make it possible to do everything and player chooses his/her path.
-and also, please stop talking about that infinite jump thing. that's solved-
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alvarop
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2016, 07:07:04 PM »

Of course it's ok... I'm not sure how this is even a question lol

the game police will not arrest you, don't worry

but what does "the player do everything" even mean?
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MYavuz
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2016, 07:22:39 PM »

Of course it's ok... I'm not sure how this is even a question lol

the game police will not arrest you, don't worry

but what does "the player do everything" even mean?
if player wants to kill someone, he/she can do it.
if player wants to get in a relationship in game, the NPC will (randomly, what were you waiting for?) decide.
if player wants to get in an adventure, no one will stop or limit them.
if player wants to have a job, he/she can.
like that. but it seems really anormal, i don't know why..
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Capntastic
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2016, 07:28:07 PM »

I dunno dude, are Tetris, TF2, The Sims, Yoshi's Cookie, Rogue, Nethack, Mount and Blade, F-Zero, FIFA, Audiosurf, Dance Dance Revolution, Left 4 Dead, Pac Man, Pong, almost any gambling or collectible card game, most fighting games, Dwarf Fortress, Minecraft, Trackmania, etc, okay?
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alvarop
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2016, 07:29:55 PM »

so you wanna make an open world game?
good luck
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2016, 07:31:49 PM »

Of course it's ok... I'm not sure how this is even a question lol

the game police will not arrest you, don't worry

but what does "the player do everything" even mean?
if player wants to kill someone, he/she can do it.
if player wants to get in a relationship in game, the NPC will (randomly, what were you waiting for?) decide.
if player wants to get in an adventure, no one will stop or limit them.
if player wants to have a job, he/she can.

Oh, you don't mean "a game without a plot", you mean "a game that reflexively generates coherent responses based on thousands of arbitrary actions the player can take, requiring on the fly NPC reactions, generation, behavior" which is actually "a game that generates plot".

but it seems really anormal, i don't know why..

Hmmmm
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alvarop
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2016, 07:32:53 PM »

Gender:   Male
Age:
   12
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Capntastic
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2016, 07:34:18 PM »

so you wanna make an open world game?
good luck

Yeah but even Morrowind didn't let you have a job or have relationships in any meaningful way.  He's not describing an open world game so much as "how come no one makes the holodeck from Star Trek?"
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Capntastic
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2016, 07:36:20 PM »

People can barely make interesting games with interesting plots, how can a mere AI hope to keep me interested AND have good graphics
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alvarop
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2016, 07:36:37 PM »

so you wanna make an open world game?
good luck

Yeah but even Morrowind didn't let you have a job or have relationships in any meaningful way.  He's not describing an open world game so much as "how come no one makes the holodeck from Star Trek?"

but it seems really anormal, i don't know why..
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2016, 07:53:06 PM »

Yo MYavuz I am going to say some things to fulfill my Proactive Community Moderation Quota for the Day:  

It is, in general, good to post threads and ask questions.  It is good to want to learn.  But it is sort of rude to post threads about complex subjects that people here take seriously, and a lot of people here do for a living, without bothering to think on the subject on your own.  

The thread you've posted here is a really big, huge, astronomically giant question that leads, with only a little bit of thinking, to other huge questions about philosophical things like "what is the role of a plot in a game" and then giant technical issues about "how can we get an AI to create rational story environments for the player to navigate, regardless of if the player is going to play in a coherent way".  There's a lot of things here to dig into!

But it's like going onto a physics forum with tons of people who do physics as a job and asking "how come we don't have free energy yet?  It seems really abnormal, I don't know why" and then looping it back to "I tried to make a solar charger for my phone and couldn't get it to work, haha".  

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rj
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2016, 08:40:09 PM »

kid look

you're a kid. here's what i want you to do right now:

-play as many games as you can
-figure out which ones you hate
-think about why
-think about what you could do to make them better
-repeat
-watch a lot of movies and tv
-read comics
-read novels
-have interests outside of games
-think about this shit a lot and what it means to you
-do all of this for the next five years while passively working on games but dont take it too seriously and make sure you focus on life stuff and all of the above

in five years, come back and try starting a new games project.
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Capntastic
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2016, 08:47:27 PM »

Drink a whole 8 ounce glass of water when you wake up in the morning
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voidSkipper
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2016, 10:23:49 PM »

I know you're probably quite new to this and this is all stuff that you'll probably figure out on your own but:

In your last thread, you asked if it's okay for a game to have infinite jumps because you can't figure out how to make the player stop jumping when he's not on the ground.

Then in this thread, you've asked if it's okay for your game not to have a plot because you can't think of one.

The answer to both of those questions is "if that's how your game is designed".

But I think you're having trouble with the answer because, if you even need to ask those questions, you probably haven't actually designed your game at all.

What is your game? If the mechanic (jumping etc) doesn't really matter, then it's probably story-driven, so what's the story? If you want the game to be plotless and have the story not matter, then it's probably going to be mechanic-based, so what's the mechanic?

You need to sit down, and come up with an idea of what you want your game to be. This doesn't have to be particularly original, especially if you're a beginner. You could literally just remake Snake and it would still be great practice.

Then, once you've figured out what you want it to be, you need to make it how you designed it, rather than taking the vague notion of making "a game" and then letting it randomly change shape based on what features are too much of a pain for you to learn right now.

I'm not saying a game can't change slightly mid-development based on viability, but we're talking core features here.
Well, i made all the characters on paper, and made some of the mechanics. But, what really matters for me is the story. But i can't just give the characters i made roles. That's the problem.
(Oh, and also, some -really- kind person on the internet fixed that jump thing. But i  still plan to use that infinite jump thing.)

Making the characters is only a small part of designing the game. You still need to know what they're going to do, why, and how. And you still need to decide how you're going to have the player interact with that.

Or, in short, as I said earlier: You haven't actually designed your game yet. It's too early to start actually making it.
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rj
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2016, 11:23:35 PM »

Drink a whole 8 ounce glass of water when you wake up in the morning

i can't tell if you're talking to me or the 12 year old but either way this is good advice. it's good advice for everyone. drink more water. it's good for you.

i say this as i chug something that's basically all acid, carbonation, and caffeine to help me work through the night. it's disgusting. don't be me.
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Schoq
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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2016, 06:12:43 AM »

actually overhydration is a thing and unless you're expecting to do things that will cost lots of water such as run for a long time or sit in the sun for hours there's no reason to drink more water than you feel like at the moment
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