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Zizka
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« on: July 10, 2016, 07:38:01 AM »

This topic sprung to mind following the topic on "Steam Quality Control". Since this is something which interests me and I didn't want to branch off-topic too much, I decided to create a new topic discussing this.

Is there an ethical way to do marketing? Maybe ethical is too strong a word however, non-obnoxious perhaps?

Summary:
From what I understand, marketing is often the aspect of game development people dislike the most, I know this is my case. The way I see it, it's one of the core aspects of your game but at the same time it's one of the most... "alien". What I mean by that is that you can be very creative and talented in creating your actual game, marketing it requires a different set of skills entirely. Successful marketing is not within the reach of a lot of people and I find there are a lot of ways to do it wrong and annoy people. Then again, it might be because I'm extremely non-receptive when it comes to sollicitation in general.

Agressive Marketing:
So one approach to marketing is to be agressive about it. Sort of brute force your visibility out there, it's also called "spamming" by some. You repeatedly flood a public domain with the information you want to share and figure numbers will be turn out in your favor eventually, statistically speaking I mean. This is considered not very skillful marketing I believe. Of course, we all have different standards and barometers to determine when too much is too much. What's your take on it, how do you prevent coming across as obnoxious in the way you put your game "out there" so to speak?

Superlative Description:
Another way to do marketing is to point out the strong points about the game. Obviously, that's not where you'll point out the shortcomings, that'd be counterproductive to say the least. Where do you stand on this, how do you describe the game without going overboard? I find that the "best" argument is an automatic fail. It's up to people to decide whether or not an aspect of your game is the best. It's also not much of an argument by itself, it's just an empty superlative. From a customer point of view, a convincing approach is to list the what you consider the strong points as objectively as possible in the actual description.

Recognition:
Another selling point is the recognition your game received from the press. I find that identifying relevant sources gives you credibility while using other less recognized sources comes across as grasping for straws and does the opposite to helping one's cause in a "well my mom thinks my game is good" sort of way.

Scratch my back:
This is sort of the modus operandi of twitter from what I understand. "I'll follow you but you have to follow me back in return". From a marketing point, I can understand how that works but I'm not sure it's actually effective marketing-wise and I'll tell you why. First of all, if a person follows in order to get followed back, there's this off chance that their interest in your project is nonexistent and you're more or less a stepping stone in them getting more followers. This doesn't mean they won't retweet you if you tweet something that could be useful for them but I would imagine that's less likely.

From a personal point, this makes me uncomfortable. I think if a person tweets to me and clearly states their intentions: "Let's retweet each other for self-promotion", I'd be receptive to that because it's upfront and at least it's clear what the deal is here. The opposite is sort of... I don't know, it doesn't feel right. Manipulative maybe?

I've seen people who clearly put "won't follow back" as part of their profile so I guess it must be something which is endemic at that point. How do you guys feel about this? Do you feel it's part of the deal?

Contests, giveaways, etc..
Have you tried contests or giveaways? How did that work out for you? I find this one mild marketing so to speak in the sense that at least consumers are getting something back here and they're not just passive cattle waiting to be impressed.


So yes, basically, I'm interested in your perception of it all. Not so much for debate, just your own personal experiences, even better, successful experiences. I'd like to learn from people who handle their marketing in non-deceptive way and yet do so successfully.


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cynicalsandel
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2016, 08:35:31 AM »

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023591/Marketing-Fundamentals-for-New
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rj
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2016, 09:22:43 AM »

just going to say this:

the stanley parable is the best-advertised indie game in recent years.


that's your template. don't imitate it, but understand and learn it.

in fact, the stanley parable's marketing works because it's deliberately, nakedly, obviously deceptive in a harmless way. it's all lies within jokes within a layer of banality. and it works because it nails the tone.

you need to understand tone really well to understand how to sell yourself and your game.


and that deception isn't unethical, not just because it's pretty obvious what it means and what it does. is it self-serving? yes, but,,,,,that's,,,,,advertising

also if you think follow for follow is the ideal MO of twitter you simply don't understand larger twitter culture, at least outside of kids who would rather use facebook anyway and try to get celebrities to talk to them. f4f gets you nowhere, that's pretty common knowledge.

also, *aggressive. not being an asshole (said the person, of course, being an asshole) but, you know. good to check up on.

quality means more than quantity re: marketing. be creative. use the same part of your brain that came up with your game's tone to come up with your marketing. it should be an extension of that, not an afterthought.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 09:28:18 AM by rj™ » Logged

Zizka
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2016, 09:31:47 AM »

Quote
also if you think follow for follow is the ideal MO of twitter you simply don't understand larger twitter culture, at least outside of kids who would rather use facebook anyway and try to get celebrities to talk to them. f4f gets you nowhere, that's pretty common knowledge.

Oh I don't think that and I'm actually relieved by the part in bold because I sincerely don't get the impression is common knowledge *at all*. I was under the impression is was common practice!

Will lookup Stanley Parable and thanks for the link, cynical.
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cynicalsandel
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2016, 10:42:54 AM »

There really isn't a lot of "unethical" marketing, other than paying for coverage without both parties disclosing it.

People just have a lot of hangups to get over. Also, a lot of beginners are just marketing aimlessly. Marketing is ineffective without a target. It's been a while, but from I can remember that GDC talk I linked (They are no longer active on TIG, but are a member here) addresses a lot of this.


Here are a few things I consider (and some most people consider) very important in relation to marketing.

1. The name/title of your game. It might have worked for Zelda, but if you name your game "The Legend of ____", you're already going to lose people. Many games can and have been successful despite having what I consider to have mediocre titles, but having something that catches attention can definitely be in your favor. Even though I don't like the game, the title "Enter the Gungeon" has my respect. Another thing to make sure of is how your title will fare in a google search.

2. Elevator pitch. Almost everyone already places a heavy emphasis on this, but you need a concise and interesting way to explain your game to others. I would advise against referencing other games in your pitch. "It's like this game but with this." is already a failed pitch. You don't want people thinking about a different game when pitching yours. Even if you are making a nostalgia play or trying to capture the audience of said game you reference, it's a failure. Let people make that connection on their own. Trust me, they will. People love comparing games to other games. But its tacky coming out of your mouth. Exceptions would be when someone directly asks about inspirations, but even then I have personal issue with that, as I don't think your inspiration should derive mostly from other video games. ("Rocket League is Soccer with Cars" is probably the most inoffensive one, but I also don't know if the devs ever pitched it that way themselves. And I'd argue Stardew Valley is an exception in which comparisons to Harvest Moon benefitted it because of lack of games in that genre on the platform.) Try to get it down to one sentence. Personally, I'd say two sentences at most. And when I say that, I don't mean have an insanely long compound complex sentence to try to fit a superfluous amount of words into that restriction.

3. Artstyle. Unfortunately for myself and for many others here, pixel art is receiving more and more backlash. The bar has been raised. Even games with good pixel get backlash. So, if you have mediocre to bad pixel art, you especially are going to struggle to gain attention. I'm not going to tell you to make a hand illustrated or 3d game if you can't, but I think it's important to understand going into development the reality of the comments or you will receive. I have hope that as kids who grew up with a PS1 or N64 age and enter development, low poly will become more prominent and pixel art will again have more breathing space. Overall, I think it's pretty obvious that a more unique artstyle (e.g. Cuphead, Firewatch, ) will receive attention solely because of said artstyle. However, I understand that most are not capable of this. You just have to do the best you can.

4. What I like to call "Gifability". How well does your game come across in gifs? People fucking love gifs. I love them. You probably love them. The only people who don't have shitty internet and can't load them all. (There are probably legitimate reasons other than that, but I do not know them.) Unfortunately, this can negatively affect story based and slower paced games. Action games often show off very well in gifs. I'm not an expert in gifs. I only know that I and many others find them appealing. I'm sure there are creative ways to use them across all genres. "Gifability" is also very important to your social media presence. Good gifs get retweets, shares, and likes, further spreading your reach. They can help you leverage your current audience into more.


I'm going to be honest. I ran out of steam writing all this. I'll try to come back and write some more as I think of it. I'm no expert in marketing and have strong opinions, so don't take anything I say as gospel. You can have a successful game without marketing at all, but I wouldn't leave it up to chance. You can also make a bunch of mistakes and still succeed despite that. Good marketing will give you, in my opinion, the best chance of success in a very crowded indie space. And as rj said, different games require different methods. Sometimes ignoring the best methods will work to your advantage for a particular game.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:48:22 AM by cynicalsandel » Logged

Valo
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2016, 03:54:06 AM »

My personal definition for ethical marketing is marketing where everybody gains and no-one is annoyed or force fed stuff.

The potential customer gets to know about your game without being annoyed by the ads. Your affiliates/partners get paid to collaborate with you but won't sell their souls. You get your game in front of your target group.

Maybe do even something where you give away stuff or provide something useful to the audience. Or even do something for charity.
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 05:42:28 PM »

I think most things are fine if you really actually value your game. If you truly believe you're giving people a net positive by trading your game for their money, and are honest with what you're providing them, it just becomes about communicating value. Nothing slimy.
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Calibanul
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2016, 07:53:45 PM »


Thanks for share
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