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[Leroy Frederick]

Hi all, (sorry in advance if this has been posted already, I did do a search)

I thought this would be a good first thread ice-breaker (or third in this case).

I also thought it would be a shame for only publishers (who it's originally aimed at) to read / know about this as I think it's as relevant (if not more so) to developers, especially indies, so here's the article in question and I think it's pretty spot on!

10 Ways to Fight Piracy

In addition to that, you can check out me attempting number 2 on the list (or in short, pimping the dev blog which I know people just love :p Diamond Raiding, updates and much regurgitations)

Hope someone finds the tips handy!

EDIT: Oh, and if you like Resident Evil 5, you'll like this even more :

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I saw that on the indiegamer.com forums too; I don't particularly disagree with any of those points, but they aren't anything I haven't read before either -- I went into it hoping for some secret ninja techniques rather than just the common sense knowledge it had.

One of cliffski's secret ninja techniques is to upload fake pirated versions which just contain the demo, and use SEO to make sure they're the first results when people search Google for things like 'Kudos 2 Crack' or 'Kudos 2 Full'.

My own game was relatively free of piracy (just a few dozen rapidshare/megaupload links that I managed to take down soon after they appeared) until it appeared on Reflexive.com -- after that, it was easily available to pirate.

[Leroy Frederick]

I saw that on the indiegamer.com forums too; I don't particularly disagree with any of those points, but they aren't anything I haven't read before either -- I went into it hoping for some secret ninja techniques rather than just the common sense knowledge it had.

One of cliffski's secret ninja techniques is to upload fake pirated versions which just contain the demo, and use SEO to make sure they're the first results when people search Google for things like 'Kudos 2 Crack' or 'Kudos 2 Full'.

My own game was relatively free of piracy (just a few dozen rapidshare/megaupload links that I managed to take down soon after they appeared) until it appeared on Reflexive.com -- after that, it was easily available to pirate.

Hey Paul, I should put a aka in my name or something (defanual), I'm responsible for that post too :D

Yeah, it's more of a reiteration rather then a revelation if you've read a few articles on the piracy subject. It'd be interesting to know (as I asked cliffski already) if anyone has experienced 6 (Customers doing some anti-piracy work for you) as a result of following these (or other) steps.

[Radix]

One of cliffski's secret ninja techniques is to upload fake pirated versions which just contain the demo, and use SEO to make sure they're the first results when people search Google for things like 'Kudos 2 Crack' or 'Kudos 2 Full'.

Takedown emails are one thing, but going out of your way to fuck with people and search results? Eugh. Even if the motive is understandable, DRM has already taught people to hate active tactics addressing piracy. At least, the importance of the "secret ninja" part should be emphasised.

(I might be wrong but can't imagine that particular technique working for anything beyond quite obscure titles anyway.)

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

DRM is disliked because it harms legitimate customers -- putting up fake pirated versions which are actually demos does not harm legitimate customers, it only inconveniences pirates who have to work a little harder to steal the game. I don't think there's anything morally wrong with it, it's equivalent to hiding one's money in a place where people are unlikely to find it.

[Radix]

I don't think that's really relevant. Your customers won't, as a whole, build their opinions by reasoning out the morality, since cynicism is faster and broad opinions are easier to maintain.
I think hating DRM has passed the point of discussion already: it's bad because it's bad, if you see what I mean. And that means it's now there in the internet zeitgeist, a rough-and-ready factoid that people are likely to use (consciously or not) in assessing whether or not someone deserves their money.
It's not even very related, it just shares the common element of trying to control to some extent whether or not a would-be pirate has the choice of convenient piracy. Knowing it's futile, that in itself is a challenge people might take personally. And as the majority are pirates of convenience with various reasons and private ethical excuses, I myself would not want to be seen as issuing any challenge like that, particularly if there's a possibility of releasing different products down the line.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I don't think such perceptions have as strong of an effect as all that. That sort of assumes perfect information, as if every single pirate in the world will know if you're putting fake versions up. But information isn't as high about people that are less famous (like indie developers). So yes, if Microsoft started doing this it'd be hated and they'd be condemned for it, but if some random indie that only 100 people in the world could recognize his name did it, nobody would notice or care, it wouldn't be news. I mean, cliffski does it, and nobody even knows it (except the people who talk to him or the people reading it here); among the pirate community he's even seen as relatively positive, since he's famous as that guy who asked pirates why they did it and changed his business in response to their answers.

[Radix]

Sure, you're right that the impact probably wouldn't be great. All I'm saying is that anyone doing something like this (I think this specific tactic is probably a waste of time, but anything like this in which you're doing something active and front-line) needs to be done with care and discretion.

Because, pragmatically, even if the impact isn't huge today, you can't be sure how things will scale up in the future if you release another game or get slashdotted or something. About 'every single pirate' knowing what you've been doing, well, the difference between Microsoft and an independent developer is that an independent's customers often are the pirates, who for some reason--maybe they want to support small developers, or just have goodwill towards you, which is what I'm getting at--have decided to actually pay for something. And in deciding maybe they google you, something I've never done for a big publisher except when looking for a patch, so the degree if interest in developers is at least in some fraction of users much higher. And if some fraction of those users feel some fraction less inclined to purchase rather than buying, that probability could become real losses in the future.

(I'll share the example that's been driving my posts. In highschool, I pirated a game. It was a very good game, but I still didn't feel inclined to go buy a real copy or anything. Later, even though I never really play commercial independent games anymore, I came across news of the developers and took an interest in them. I've since bought two of their games, and I can't really say why I did that rather then passing them over like other equally attractive titles apart from thinking "these guys, they're okay". Those guys are relatively successful now, but they were just as obscure as everyone else back when they released Uplink. But I've since learned that they do just this thing; fucking with people's downloads, and something about doing that and then acting smug about it  bugs me. Again, I can't really say why. I don't see myself buying from them again.)

I can't say whether or not it's a good strategy (to quote Introversion: "After the third time of downloading the demo, the P2P user will be very, very frustrated, and will do one of two things - give up or buy the game from us." Sure thing. Maybe there's a third option: look at the filesize and try again. Or a fourth: try harder, look elsewhere, and in doing so become more familiar and comfortable with piracy), or whether you'd earn more from forcing people to buy than you'd lose from losing goodwill. It's not a new idea so you can't expect it to earn you press anymore.
Either way, and whether you do something like this or not, the best policy is therefore: keep quiet about it!

(I'm about to pack and vanish for a few days, so thanks a bunch for the interesting discussion.)

[Craig Stern]

I don't think that's really relevant. Your customers won't, as a whole, build their opinions by reasoning out the morality, since cynicism is faster and broad opinions are easier to maintain.

Is someone searching for "YourGameCrack.exe" on Google really one of "your customers," though? I think that would be a bit of a stretch.

[Radix]

Is someone searching for "YourGameCrack.exe" on Google really one of "your customers," though? I think that would be a bit of a stretch.

No point in giving him a reason not to tell his friends about you, or change his mind and buy from you in the future.

[Craig Stern]

I guess. I just don't see some pirate telling his friends about the fact that a game developer tried to stop him from pirating the game by providing him a link to a demo labeled as the full game, and his friends getting all indignant, and even though they were totally going to buy the game, now they're not. The only way I can ever imagine someone getting angry about that is if they were, in fact, trying to pirate the game. After all, it's not like seeding a demo for the game prevents people from testing the game, or from figuring out if they like the game and want to pay money for it.

The way I see it, piracy is mostly a crime of convenience. As soon as it becomes more trouble than it's worth for people to pirate, most of them will pay for the product. That's why services like iTunes are able to survive: it can be a hassle trying to download music illegally, and part of the reason for that are record companies deliberately seeding fake mp3s.

[Leroy Frederick]

Precisely, the only way putting up fakes on torrents could cause negative effects to you is by putting up versions that harm peoples computers and it's not uncommon for people that pirate to say when a game doesn't work even if it's not from the original source, but demos, nah, can't see any problem there

[Aik]

Pirates are not necessarily consistently pirates though - sure, they might pirate one of your games, but later on they very well might buy another one. If you've gone to a lot of effort in frustrating their piracy when they were just checking your stuff out, there's not going to be a lot of goodwill there.

Do you really think the only reason the iTunes store survives is because it's easier than piracy? It's not a hassle to download music illegally at all - if I want to download an mp3 the least convenient thing I could do is to to iTunes. People buy for a number of reasons, but because their piracy attempts were thwarted by bad uploads - probably not so much (except for big new releases before which torrents are safe have been worked out - and that's not relevant to indie devs). Piracy sites are quite effective at weeding fake uploads from the real thing.

I can't help but remember this case: http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/node/719

I think *fighting* piracy is the wrong way to go about things - it's not a fight you can win unless you're utterly obscure and no one cares about your game. Using the energy of piracy to, say - spread the word or grow a loyal fanbase is a better option if you can pull it off.

[Craig Stern]

I can't help but remember this case: http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/node/719

That's interesting. How do you envision that sort of phenomenon happening with games, though? Don't you think the people that pirate independent, high-brow art films are a somewhat different demographic from those that pirate video games?

[CountZero]

Intresting article.

heres some more points that could be added in my view

11. Make the games available (or rather easy to purchase) to your customers

12 Be wary of price and environment

Detailed version

In some countries ( ex Serbia) it is very hard to get a creditcard that will consistently work for internet purchases. Paypal is unavailable.  However an alternative that might work might be bank transfers.

12. In most Eastern european countries due to the average wage you cant really keep the equivalent price as the one in west Europe or the US due to wage differences or rather economical status.

If you assume a average game price of 60$ or 45 Euros it might be hard to get customers to buy the game legit given that the average wage is around 300 Euros per month

[Cray]

Do you really think the only reason the iTunes store survives is because it's easier than piracy? It's not a hassle to download music illegally at all - if I want to download an mp3 the least convenient thing I could do is to to iTunes

iTunes is one of the easiest options for any casual computer/ipod user

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Yes, itunes is way easier than piracy for someone who isn't technically inclined. Just because something is just as easy for you doesn't mean it's just as easy for people who don't use computers eight hours a day.

[Aik]

That's interesting. How do you envision that sort of phenomenon happening with games, though? Don't you think the people that pirate independent, high-brow art films are a somewhat different demographic from those that pirate video games?

Well, I guess that depends on the game. I can't actually say if there's any link between the high-brow art thing and whether people will support it, but I guess it's possible that there's a link and that people would do the same for a high-brow art game.

OTOH, I don't get the impression that only high-brow art type people downloaded the movie. More like lots of people downloaded it just because it was there and it sounded kinda cool, and then realised that hey - this is really good. It being casually available (and people saying nice things about it, of course) is the reason it was so widely distributed, and it being so widely distributed and popular is how the producer was able to make money out of it.

Of course, I guess there's the thing with games that there's no 'live' way to do it - like going to the movies or a concert, so it would probably be less successful moneymakingwise with games where you can't go off and pay for a unique enhanced version/experience of what you pirated. Still, popularity and good relations with the people who like your stuff has other benefits (they might buy a copy just to support you, donate, spread the word to people who will buy a copy, or buy something that you make later). Telling them 'you're a dirty pirate - gtfo' is less likely to help here than going 'oh, cool you like my stuff. I'd appreciate some money though if you can'.

[Radix]

I guess. I just don't see some pirate telling his friends about the fact that a game developer tried to stop him from pirating the game by providing him a link to a demo labeled as the full game, and his friends getting all indignant, and even though they were totally going to buy the game, now they're not.

I don't see that either. I see people saying "it's shit", or worse yet, not saying "it's good". When it comes to the benefit of generating word-of-mouth interest it doesn't really matter how the player aquired a game.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I think word of mouth is overestimated, even among indie games. I've only once or twice tried an indie game because a friend recommended it to me. The majority of the time it's when I see it on TIGSource or TimW's blog.

I once had a poll asking people on my forums where they had originally heard of Immortal Defense. Although the sample was small (about a dozen people) not one heard about it through a friend, even though that was one of the options.

Of course, this is just my personal experience, maybe word of mouth is important for other people or for other games.