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[Bravo81]

Hey everyone,

I thought I'd reach out and introduce my company Greenlight Games, we started as a games studio creating mobile games in early 2015. Since then we've won two awards & moved into our own office and have now started developing VR games as an Oculus Partner with the Oculus Rift and their Touch Controllers.

One of our goals is to create a small portfolio of published games and I'd love to help publish yours. We don't just message every game going, we pick ones that stand out.

We've only published one title so far and that was DEUL, it came out in January as a soft release to Android & iOS and will be hitting 1 million players this weekend. We actually found the developer here on TIGSource and they've stuck with us with their second version of DEUL coming out in September.
http://www.deulgame.co.uk

If you're interested we would publish and advertise your awesome game via social media, exhibitions & help you get through Steam Greenlight(if PC). We can publish mobile games, pc games, Playstation, Xbox & VR. It would be great to chat more, please message me or fire me an email:
[email protected]

I'm not here to pretend we're a huge publisher but we've done very well so far and we would love to work with you if you believe your game has potential to stand out.

We have professionally written agreements that would require signing and normally look for a 40% split of your revenue depending on the title.

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

We've only published one title so far [...]
We have professionally written agreements that would require signing and normally look for a 40% split of your revenue depending on the title.

40% ?  wahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Bravo81]

We've only published one title so far [...]
We have professionally written agreements that would require signing and normally look for a 40% split of your revenue depending on the title.

40% ?  wahahahahahahahahahahaha

As I said this is discussed with the developer and depends on the title.

[cynicalsandel]

Are you providing funding? I don't see that listed anywhere in your "pitch".

[Bravo81]

We have funding available depending on what's required but don't have tens of thousands of pounds at our disposal.

We're aiming more towards titles that don't need large funding, created by small teams and close to being finished.

[NoLocality]

So if a person signed you guys up as their publisher what would you do for them to justify that 40%?

Specifics please, every other "publisher" promises promotion, greenlight boosting and such...these usually amount to some half-handed social media posts and shady steam-key give-aways in exchange for votes.

How does Greenlight Games differ?

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

then you're pretty useless as a publisher.

One of your goal is to create a small portfolio of published games (since it's a beginning for publisher position) , yet you have openly told the average rate you're asking , which is pretty high considering your prestige.

One of your pitch is helping getting the game on steam greenlight , seriously? we're not in 2014 anymore.

[cynicalsandel]

You are asking for way too much rev share for what you offer. Other publishers offer a lot more funding and have very similar revenue asks. Not even just funding, what connections do you have? Other pubs have ins with consoles. They have established press connections. They have reputations. A social media presence isn't enough. Helping devs get through Greenlight isn't enough. Marketing isn't enough. Not for 40%. 

What do you offer that Tiny Build, Devolver Digital, Adult Swim Games, etc don't?

[Bravo81]

I appreciate your comments and feedback so far, as the title and topic explains we are new to this - learning and building.
You shouldn't be approaching or looking at GG as a publisher such as 'Tiny Build, Devolver Digital or Adult Swim Games'.

You've all brought up the same subject, that being the 40% split as a publisher being 'too high'. I get that, the idea behind growing slowly and not just slapping our brand on any game that looks our way was to give us the manpower to concentrate on these titles properly.

I'll say again, the 40% isn't final and we're open to offers - I personally think it's quite fair for a free to play mobile game. It's also possible to adjust the percentage over time, such as 3, 6 or 12 months.

That aside NoLocality asked 'what would you do for them to justify that 40%?'.

Of course this is the important part and we really do take pride in our brand, we've created strong connections within Unity, UKIE, UK Games Fund, UK Games Talent & Tranzfuser. As a studio we're also part of the Xbox ID Programme and Sony PlayStation Partners. I'd like to point out we're a UK based company and ideally are looking for UK developers, as we're able to provide more support that way.

Last week we became an Oculus Partner and were shipped the new CV1 headsets and Oculus Touch dev kits, they arrived earlier this week.
Over the next 2 months we're attending two exhibitions in Orlando, Florida plus EGX in the UK.

We own pro subscriptions for Unity, Substance Painter, Substance Designer, Mixamo, Adobe Suite & Game Textures.
All of the above software, hardware & SDKs would be at the developers disposal if needed.

We're also able to offer the help of our in-house team in development with programming, artwork, music, 3D assets & animation.

Marketing wise it would be as I said previously social media, paid advertising, attending or providing exhibition access, small funding, license costs.

I can't say we have good connections with press but that is something we're working on and now work with a PR company on that basis, our reputation is a work in progress too.

I want to stress once again, we aren't a AAA studio. We're just expanding in to this area, have a small budget for it and want to see if it works. We did it with one game, that worked. Now we want to add a few more titles. I know this wont be right or work for everyone but for some developers it does.

[cynicalsandel]

You shouldn't be approaching or looking at GG as a publisher such as 'Tiny Build, Devolver Digital or Adult Swim Games'.

Why not? They are your direct competitors and you still have yet to say anything to differentiate yourself other than you're "new". They have proven track records. I know what I'm getting with them because they have results. What evidence do you have that you can successfully push a game in an increasingly competitive market? You mention Steam, but what games of yours have gotten through Greenlight and what success have they had on the storefront?

All I see right now is a place for desperate people to go when their pitches are rejected by better publishers.

I'll say again, the 40% isn't final and we're open to offers - I personally think it's quite fair for a free to play mobile game. It's also possible to adjust the percentage over time, such as 3, 6 or 12 months.

Regardless of how negotiable it is, if other pubs offer full funding for a similar cut, why choose you? How is it fair for a f2p mobile game? How are you going to acquire the users necessary to have a successful mobile game? The user acquisition cost for a f2p mobile game almost guarantees a larger investment than it seems like you are willing to front.

That aside NoLocality asked 'what would you do for them to justify that 40%?'.

Of course this is the important part and we really do take pride in our brand, we've created strong connections within Unity, UKIE, UK Games Fund, UK Games Talent & Tranzfuser. As a studio we're also part of the Xbox ID Programme and Sony PlayStation Partners. I'd like to point out we're a UK based company and ideally are looking for UK developers, as we're able to provide more support that way.

Last week we became an Oculus Partner and were shipped the new CV1 headsets and Oculus Touch dev kits, they arrived earlier this week.
Over the next 2 months we're attending two exhibitions in Orlando, Florida plus EGX in the UK.

We own pro subscriptions for Unity, Substance Painter, Substance Designer, Mixamo, Adobe Suite & Game Textures.
All of the above software, hardware & SDKs would be at the developers disposal if needed.

We're also able to offer the help of our in-house team in development with programming, artwork, music, 3D assets & animation.

Marketing wise it would be as I said previously social media, paid advertising, attending or providing exhibition access, small funding, license costs.

Other publishers provide this already, plus more funding. How effective is your social media coverage? What's your reach? You mention EGX and "Orlando", but what about the multiple PAX conventions? Gamescom? E3? Have you had booths at these? Do you plan to? If you don't have access to "tens of thousands of pounds" how do you plan to send individual devs to any conferences, let alone teams? The cost for a PAX booth (barring being in the Indie Mega Booth) is approx. $5k USD at least for a US resident. Since you are based in the UK, plane tickets would easily cost much more. Plus, each team member increases that. Or do you plan to avoid the the majority of US based conventions?

I can't say we have good connections with press but that is something we're working on and now work with a PR company on that basis, our reputation is a work in progress too.

So, you don't even handle your PR inhouse? What's the reputation of the PR firm you use? Do they work exclusively with games? If so are they mobile focused? If they are, how do you expect them to adjust to the differences between mobile, console, and PC markets?

I want to stress once again, we aren't a AAA studio. We're just expanding in to this area, have a small budget for it and want to see if it works. We did it with one game, that worked. Now we want to add a few more titles. I know this wont be right or work for everyone but for some developers it does.

Nobody expects you to be "AAA". You still have to prove your worth. I'm here solely to inform less knowledgable devs who could be tempted by your offer despite not knowing any better. The fact is, based on what I've seen and read, it would not be smart to sign with your company. The fact is, unless you provide real funding, you are never going to offer enough to justify your cut. If think you are, you are deluding yourself, and you are taking advantage of devs.

This is EXCLUDING the fact that you are targeting projects near completion, and if you knew anything about marketing, you would know how ineffective it is to start that late in the process.

[NoLocality]

Services offered.

Well fair enough, that's quite a bit more than I expected.

Honestly though, this is a bad time for "publishers".  Years of steam greenlight attention has spawned some scummy companies that spam devs and hope that they are insecure enough to sign up for obviously bad deals...I could go more into depth about this but most are aware.

You and your team have developed games you say, then you know how much goes into creating a video game start to finish.  You're proposing this offer to an entire forum full of people who are aware of what it takes.  You know that 40% split for promotion is not even close to how much effort goes into promotion vs development.

Maybe it's fair for the mobile market (I wouldn't know to be honest) but your company name indicates you have eyes set elsewhere.  These are different markets...to say your approaching greenlight with a mobile market mentality to a group of indie devs is kinda like offering a ride to the only watering hole around if only you are allowed to empty your bladder into the pond every trip.

...our reputation is a work in progress too.

Then please surprise the world at large and be one of those increasingly rare non-scammy publishers.



...look maybe this isn't what you're getting at as you're building your company, but well...the shittery of previous publishers has left developers and players alike jaded as hell.

Again, this is a bad time for "publishers".

[Bravo81]

but your company name indicates you have eyes set elsewhere.

Sadly I registered the company in Feb of 2014 which was 6 months after Steam Greenlight had been created and no one had heard of it yet, nothing in common there.

Then please surprise the world at large and be one of those increasingly rare non-scammy publishers.

...look maybe this isn't what you're getting at as you're building your company, but well...the shittery of previous publishers has left developers and players alike jaded as hell.

I appreciate that, hopefully you'll recognise the brand more in years to come!

cynicalsandel, it's obvious that GG can't do anything right in your eyes - I don't understand why you seem so angry but thanks for your reply.

[cynicalsandel]

It's just the reality of the business you are trying to enter. These are the questions any responsible potential client should ask before signing with you or any other publisher. If you can't answer them, it's a red flag.

It's not that you can do no right, but a lot of publishers' entire business model relies on unknowledgeable devs, and while you might be the nicest people in the world, your deals are only slightly better than that. This forum is filled with a lot of people who don't know publisher deals, don't know the right questions to ask, and don't know what they should seek in a contract like this. I'm only tough for the people who read this thread who might be open to a publisher and don't know any better.

Most devs would say you should literally never sign with a publisher unless they offer significant funding, and that's something I think you and everyone should know even if you disagree.

[Valo]

Took a look at your games and here's a bit of an analysis of my findings.

Got a look at your 2 older Google Play games have only between 500 - 1000 installs. Most of the 5 star reviews are from the same people. Since I can't prove that those reviews are from you guys, I'm just pointing out it looks mighty suspicious. That is probably due to those games being rather average and not so appealing but as a publisher you should know how to pick good games.

Now DEUL has done rather well, though I don't see any online presence of it so I'm guessing you've pushed the game with some healthy app install boost campaigns. Anyways, if you get over 1M installs, it's nothing to sneeze at. Graphically it looks good and seems to have an enjoyable gameplay from what I saw.

But the severe lack of any online presence outside the ones with your own few channels is quite worrying. It signals me that you don't do much of actual PR or have much contacts in the industry.

A good publisher deal is one that helps the developers get more money out of the deal than they are giving away and the publisher gets a healthy cut from their work. A win-win, if you will. Even after your answers to the questions here, I have a hard time seeing how I would get my money's worth from using you guys if you don't do any PR. The lack of connections with the media, as you said it, is a big red flag. It's very essential for a publisher to have connections to the media or at least a good-sized press contact list.

There are far better and more experienced publishers out there with 35% cut and even those are not publishers I probably would recommend making a deal with. Something like TinyBuild, Devolver and the likes are worth what they take but the smaller ones rarely seem to do anything other than bleed the revenue with minimal work effort and results.

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

Sadly I registered the company in Feb of 2014 which was 6 months after Steam Greenlight had been created and no one had heard of it yet, nothing in common there.

Steam greenlight started in august 2012 and the first greenlit game was released in september 2012.

[Valo]

Sadly I registered the company in Feb of 2014 which was 6 months after Steam Greenlight had been created and no one had heard of it yet, nothing in common there.

Then why the similar light green coloring in the logo that Steam uses for Greenlight? I put your logo and GL's logo to Photoshop and sampled the colors, they are almost the same shade. The difference is within the limits of jpg-artefact's margin.

Also, as the previous commenter pointed out, Greenlight was a thing years before your company was founded. It would be best to be honest if you are looking for business partners/clients.

[DireLogomachist]

Getting a game on Steam means Steam takes 30% right off the top.

Having a publisher then take 40% off of that, well...

[rj]

i dont even know how to respond to this thread. you're trying to swim an ocean with waterwings and a snorkel.

[dhondon]

We own pro subscriptions for Unity, Substance Painter, Substance Designer, Mixamo, Adobe Suite & Game Textures.
All of the above software, hardware & SDKs would be at the developers disposal if needed.

Is this legal? So I can let other people borrow my software? Sounds like something that most TOS wouldn't allow.


40% might be the cut other publishers operate with, but you cant start at the top. Its like an beginner freelancer programmer or artist charge the same as a pro from day one.

[Zizka]

People are reacting with hostility probably because of the 40% and the other small inaccurate comments in your messages.

It's normal for people to be on their guard when someone comes up to them and say "Hey, I'd love to publish your game... for 40% of the revenue." It's so steep that the first reaction for most people would probably be: "Well, I sure as hell hope you provide bona fide services for taking such a huge cut off... my almost finished game." I don't want to sound patronizing but I see no other way to put this:

The reason people use KickStarter to make their games isn't because they need funding when the game is almost completed. Now, fair enough a publisher isn't the same as crowdfunding but the need for funding remains.

You were asking why the anger and that's part of it. The difference between collaboration and exploitation is the investment of the partners towards one another.

So 1) Lack of funding is a big one. If you'd love to publish your game, put your  money where your mouth is and invest.

The next thing is a personal thing but it might irk other people too. The fact that you didn't know when steam got started. It took me literally less than 10 seconds to look it up on wikipedia. I know you're starting but first impressions are important. You have to project a company which is reliable and knows what it is talking about. I mean, I would casually look it up before posting a message just to make sure I'm not saying shit and I'm not even a publisher. Does it mean that you often make statements without making sure first? That'd be a big one as a publisher. So this doesn't inspire trust either.

So 2) check your facts in order to give a good first impression.

3) The addendums: "Oh yeah, by the way we're looking for people for are in the UK..." and such. I mean come on. Your first presentation message should be flawless. You're trying to make a pitch here. Maybe my expectations are set to high but all the important information should be in the first message from the get go. If you forget something (which you really shouldn't) edit your first message right away, information shouldn't trickle through the next few posts. It should all be there from the get go. I mean you didn't even mention what the 40% entailed until you were asked.

4)

Sadly I registered the company in Feb of 2014 which was 6 months after Steam Greenlight had been created and no one had heard of it yet, nothing in common there.

That would be one hell of a coincidence I'm sure you'll admit. This doesn't sound right to me.

So basically yeah. I guess take it as a learning experience.

P.S.: present the important information in bold or as bullet points or something. This is usually how pitches are made.