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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesNintendo Switch (formerly NX)
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Author Topic: Nintendo Switch (formerly NX)  (Read 66321 times)
gimymblert
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« Reply #720 on: January 22, 2017, 07:22:29 AM »

the draw distance of interaction compare to what's possible in gamecube, that's one reason the field was empty, they removed stuff (compared to the reveal), gta have low draw distance and event bubble on old generation. All the grass is flammable and interactive in botw, a lot of events can potentially happen which need to be tested and hold when they happen, wildlife, complex behavior of agents...
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« Reply #721 on: January 22, 2017, 07:46:21 AM »

I wonder how much RAM the Switch has. The WiiU had 2GB, which is a lot considering that the 360/PS3 have 512MB. I think it's likely that this motivated the team to make an open world Zelda.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #722 on: January 22, 2017, 08:38:47 AM »

rumored 4
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #723 on: January 22, 2017, 09:36:32 AM »

zomg wowza 4 whole Gigabytes of RAM??? O.o
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« Reply #724 on: January 22, 2017, 09:36:59 AM »

:^)
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gimymblert
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« Reply #725 on: January 22, 2017, 09:43:05 AM »

For contrast, the x1 and ps4 have 4 dedicated to game and 4 dedicated to os (8 in total), it seems nintendo pushed the extra os fonction to smartphone and keep a lean dumb down os on the switch. Though ps4 also have now 512 more mo unlocked from the os that used to be "shared" (whatever that mean). Also only 6 cores where used by the ps4 and x1 until (2 dedicated to os background function), but now they can reclaim all of them for longer os transition time and no background running at the same time.
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Tuba
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« Reply #726 on: January 22, 2017, 10:03:17 AM »

4GB should be enough. I heard someone saying that Zelda on the Switch has no models popping like on the WiiU.

Anyway, if you think about the Switch as a portable, that machine is a beast.
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joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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« Reply #727 on: January 23, 2017, 08:43:05 AM »

what i mean is, i don't think "the gameplay" in any of your typical mariozeldapokerman games is going to be taxing on a half decent modern cpu

Well the xenoblade and especially the zelda that have embraced seamless "open air" world design are great case for that, and that mario had a city simulation running around, with all the grabable edges around that mean a lot of raycast (ie cpu).

wow so I initially came in here to call out alevice for the stupid 'what's to underestimate' when looking at a game with really modern graphics, lighting, and physics, but _this_ is the dumbest thing in the thread. nintendo did all that on the n64 gimmy.
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« Reply #728 on: January 23, 2017, 08:45:42 AM »

warn i'm Not a Progressional Programmer but:

I'm pretty sure the stuff we're using all our cpu cycles for in games is like, pathfinding with changing environments, animating complex systems like complicated skeletal rigs and particles, and physics (which i'll begrudgingly admit inclues your 'lots of raycasts'). We've been loading big open worlds full of data off the hard drive since the 80s.
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« Reply #729 on: January 23, 2017, 11:08:27 AM »

The computation for raycasts scales logarithmically with scene complexity, that is if the engine is designed intelligently. So there shouldn't be a problem with that in a Mario game. However, with increased scene complexity the cpu has to prepare more data to feed the gpu.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #730 on: January 23, 2017, 11:20:28 AM »

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
  Shrug

Just because the n64 could do it mean it's the same, the method, limitation and density are clearly not the same, I have been studying and trying to implement these techniques since I'm on Tigs and my earliest post was about grabbable edge on mario 64. I'm well aware of various way to do it and their shortcoming and how they have evolve through time. Though I'm not a super expert that does it all the time.

When you have only 6000 polygon on screen (not all for the scene) it's not the same than having millions, even with separation of the colliding mesh with the visual mesh, the complexity did goes up (the number of polygon of one character in one generation is the budget for the entire scene in the previous generation), and the collision algorithm scale quadratically (basically exponentially). Most Optimization comes from partitioning the data as much as possible (to curve it toward logarithmic shape), using tags and proxy objects and also deciding how the gameplay works (that's why rpg have simpler collision than platformer for example, you can make different assumption to fake things). For example in gta 5 to account for more stuff on screen they removed grabbable edge present in gta4 (see the video provided above).

So that bring to that scene in mario switch and zelda, they have character with complex behavior, which mean you will have a lot Line of sight raycast to account for changement, the simple fact that enemy can lose their sword or scan the environment to find stuff is consuming a bunch of raycast, in fact if the enemy couldn't lose the weapon nor pick one in the environement or be in flat area where the complexity could be controlled (see all zelda prior) you could save a bunch of raycast for other stuff (in wind waker you can see such an optimization with the big enemy pig with a lance, the physics of their flavor trail don't actually collide with the ground, they raycast down and use an assume plane, the rare tile you see them next to an incline you see it just lay flat and don't follow the ground). Also it depend on the nature of what you raycasting against, assumption can be made for heightmap terrain that is different from meshes.

In that mario game, it isn't the standard mario game with simple behavior right of the bat, at least the city scene, you have character walking and circulation around and reacting to change in the scene, you have more complex interactable geometry with much more potential for chaos and occlusion, that's key because it's not gta or a rpg, it's a mario, they must have very consistent response to command and not have explosion like in skyrim that send you flying away. That generally mean more check for safety. Obvious trade off is its a small scene so not having to load stuff asynchronously like in zelda help massively in stability. BTW you can see hint of partition in zelda with the fire on ground, they follow a grid, I bet the interaction check are aligned to that grid. I also admit I was massively impressed by enemy being scared by falling boulder pushed down a hill, you just have no idea how such a simple interaction is a big deal. The game is also a bit sparser in interaction desnity than that mario game, I bet enemy aren't too localized around stream seam and they also seems to exist in a specially design area with wiggle room around that I wonder if they can actually leave that area (I bet not).

I had to deal with these problem and it's one of the reason my sonic clone is actual vaporware, because I use a complex environment, ie the assumption of "down is the ground" cannot be made as it is a 360° platformer like mario galaxy, it makes thinks more complex and I had a lot of slowdown on a machine that is more powerful than the 64 because I did it naively (also because physix is a generic engine that do too much for my sake). And speaking of mario 64, I have been studying the physics of that game for a long time and I'm still baffle by all of the exception they are having.
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Superb Joe
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« Reply #731 on: January 23, 2017, 11:29:22 AM »

to me, personally, and i know this might be controversial, but i think a faster cpu is better than a slower cpu
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Torchkas
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« Reply #732 on: January 23, 2017, 12:51:07 PM »

I think I might buy this overglorified tablet with a wire to connect to my TV after a year of it being on the market so that I can better judge its library and (hopefully) buy it in a sale.

At least it's better than the Wii U.
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Manuel Magalhães
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« Reply #733 on: January 26, 2017, 05:39:52 PM »




Mario Kart 8 Deluxe German ad
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Tuba
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« Reply #734 on: January 26, 2017, 05:51:58 PM »

That's a pretty good ad.

Finally someone that admits that people like to play on the toilet!
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Tanner
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« Reply #735 on: January 26, 2017, 07:06:28 PM »

the first time i played a video game was on the toilet

i got a gameboy pocket when i was 4 and played mickey's dangerous chase on the toilet because i was sick when i got it and had bad diarrhea
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gimymblert
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« Reply #736 on: January 26, 2017, 07:53:11 PM »

the first time i played a video game was on the toilet

i got a gameboy pocket when i was 4 and played mickey's dangerous chase on the toilet because i was sick when i got it and had a bad case of diarrhea

Fixed
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Tanner
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« Reply #737 on: January 26, 2017, 10:04:34 PM »

Thanks
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« Reply #738 on: January 27, 2017, 02:40:29 AM »

That's a pretty good ad.

Finally someone that admits that people like to play on the toilet!

Someone doesn't remember the Nintendo DS:



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Superb Joe
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« Reply #739 on: January 27, 2017, 02:59:16 AM »

the first time i played a video game was on the toilet

i got a gameboy pocket when i was 4 and played mickey's dangerous chase on the toilet because i was sick when i got it and had bad diarrhea
I wish my toilet could play Mickey's dangerous chase
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