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[gimymblert]

The word "sky" is owned

[JWK5]

"State Now Claims It Owns the Wind — Taxing Renewable Energy “Out of Existence”"

"Collecting rainwater now illegal in many states as Big Government claims ownership over our water"

This is what you get when sociopaths rule the world.

[s0]

those words and colors are not "owned" though, they are trademarked. trademark infringement is only a thing if you make a product that could be feasibly be mistaken for the original trademark. that's why there are two unrelated companies named Blizzard for instance (the videogame dev and a ski manufacturer).

[Alessio]

Just because something is legal don't mean it is just. Soon you will be jail for humming a song (actually it happen with the happy birthday song at a shcool without the jail). There is a confiscation of culture.

This should be valid even for us, and not only for companies.
And only because something seems just but is illegal doesn't mean you should do it. I know few shitlords that don't deserve all the money they have. And no, you will not be jailed for something like that... maybe you would, if you lived in North Korea.

especially since everyone seems to be citing sega's handling of sonic mania as "the right way to do things" in complete opposition to AM2R in almost every thread I see about it

That's because everyone in the Internet would want to do whatever they want, though, regardless the rules. If it depended from the Internet, Copyright wouldn't exist and thank god it does exist! And the few people who actually try to analize the situation from a company's perspective is deemed as "Nintendo Fanboy" or "Mussolini".

And who told you it's "the right thing"? I'll note again that Nintendo isn't as starving as SEGA. Nintendo doesn't need fan remakes and let's players for coverage. SEGA has made a lot of dumb business moves and now needs desperately coverage, even begging the fans for it. I'll write this again: SEGA doesn't do this because they're the "good guys" doing the "right thing".
They'll turn against Whitehead if they can find an advantage from it. Therefore, it's not necessarily positive.

And also: Nintendo has never and ever made a truly disappointing game, aside very few cases (Virtual Boy). Now everyone loathes Federation Force, just like with Paper Mario but i truly can't understand this. They get angry only because fans didn't get what they wanted. You know why? Because Nintendo actually strives for appealing as many consumers as possible, releasing mostly quality games. Indeed, we, for Nintendo aren't loyal disciples, we're just mere consumers. They actually do market researches and want to sell as much as possible plus satisfying the consumers because they know that, if they don't satisfy them, will get screwed. And i totally agree with what they do, as a multi-billion dollars company. We, as indie developers, very probably, would treat our consumers as loyal disciples. That's because we're not multi-billion dollars companies. I'd be still careful anyway.

You have to remember that we fans are a vocal minority. Just believe that, if Federation Force turns out to be good, kids may or will enjoy it, regardless it's a "true" Metroid game or not. If it will turn out to be bad, well, Nintendo will pay the consequences. In brief, they don't need to take fans who make fangames for free exposure: they already make their own advertisement and market research and will go on.

...tend to be considered likely fair use.

No. End of story.

btw, japanese companies tend to leave fan works alone because the doujin scene is big and important in japan and they see it as encouraging a larger and more loyal fan community (i.e. more people to buy their official stuff). as has been stated in this thread repeatedly, nintendo cracking down on things like metroid or the mario 64 demo is actually anomalous in their history as a company. zelda classic has already been mentioned. super mario bros X, by the guy who later made terraria, has also been untouched by nintendo lawyers for many years. im just cherry picking some high profile examples here, but there are many more.
and even the metroid "takedown" was pretty half assed. if they actually wanted to stop AM2R being released, they could have done that, like square did with the chrono trigger remake. but they didn't. the game is now irrevocably out there.

I don't know about zelda classic but there must be a reason they don't remove it. Maybe because they don't hurt their sales... or maybe because zelda classic is something so underground that Nintendo doesn't even mind removing it. Seriously, despite SMBX (oh yeah it was killed) or ROM hacking, which have got some coverage (Nindendo indeed killed a lot of ROM hacking Youtube channels), Zelda Classic as little to none. Nintendo will not go after totally underground fan-works, they go after what can hurt their sales and images. I would either. The game is out there because of torrents, and torrent sites are ones of the biggest hassles of the Internet's law enforcement agencies. This isn't a victory, at all!

Its not that simple...

Why should they "adapt"? I'm fine with all this. If i want to watch a movie, i'm gonna buy a DVD... even if that DVD costs €20 (The majority cost from €10 to €15). Or go to Neflix. Now let's find a way to make money without actually selling services... how would they keep their activities? They don't plan things because they're necessarily evil.

There's an entire cottage industry of Copyright enforcement agencies like...

I'm fine with most of this either. Not sure about SOPA because i don't know the full story but i'm totally up for strict copyright protection.

Now, I'm also all to prevent some from being total shitlords and taking advantage of their power, though. In this case, Nintendo wasn't being one, they've done the right thing because AM2R was truly hurting their sales. As entertainment companies shouldn't abuse their power, neither we ordinary people should. This isn't a war between "evil conservatives" and "poor victim good liberals". If there are laws, there must be a reason and i totally agree with enforcement: without it there would be a chaos.

Anyway, i'm not trying to prevent you from making fanworks but, please, just don't act like Copyright laws are "pure evil": you wouldn't like it if someone used your stuff without persmisson.

"State Now Claims It Owns the Wind — Taxing Renewable Energy “Out of Existence”"
"Collecting rainwater now illegal in many states as Big Government claims ownership over our water"
This is what you get when sociopaths rule the world.

These are off-topic... but they also smell like... demagogic.

[FK in the Coffee]

Oh yeah, I'm sure AM2R is taking away millions of sales from the 3DS eShop juggernaut, Metroid II, which is no doubt still selling strong more than four years after it became a viral hit

[rj]

Just because something is legal don't mean it is just. Soon you will be jail for humming a song (actually it happen with the happy birthday song at a shcool without the jail). There is a confiscation of culture.

This should be valid even for us, and not only for companies.
And only because something seems just but is illegal doesn't mean you should do it. I know few shitlords that don't deserve all the money they have. And no, you will not be jailed for something like that... maybe you would, if you lived in North Korea.

especially since everyone seems to be citing sega's handling of sonic mania as "the right way to do things" in complete opposition to AM2R in almost every thread I see about it

That's because everyone in the Internet would want to do whatever they want, though, regardless the rules. If it depended from the Internet, Copyright wouldn't exist and thank god it does exist! And the few people who actually try to analize the situation from a company's perspective is deemed as "Nintendo Fanboy" or "Mussolini".

And who told you it's "the right thing"? I'll note again that Nintendo isn't as starving as SEGA. Nintendo doesn't need fan remakes and let's players for coverage. SEGA has made a lot of dumb business moves and now needs desperately coverage, even begging the fans for it. I'll write this again: SEGA doesn't do this because they're the "good guys" doing the "right thing".
They'll turn against Whitehead if they can find an advantage from it. Therefore, it's not necessarily positive.

And also: Nintendo has never and ever made a truly disappointing game, aside very few cases (Virtual Boy). Now everyone loathes Federation Force, just like with Paper Mario but i truly can't understand this. They get angry only because fans didn't get what they wanted. You know why? Because Nintendo actually strives for appealing as many consumers as possible, releasing mostly quality games. Indeed, we, for Nintendo aren't loyal disciples, we're just mere consumers. They actually do market researches and want to sell as much as possible plus satisfying the consumers because they know that, if they don't satisfy them, will get screwed. And i totally agree with what they do, as a multi-billion dollars company. We, as indie developers, very probably, would treat our consumers as loyal disciples. That's because we're not multi-billion dollars companies. I'd be still careful anyway.

You have to remember that we fans are a vocal minority. Just believe that, if Federation Force turns out to be good, kids may or will enjoy it, regardless it's a "true" Metroid game or not. If it will turn out to be bad, well, Nintendo will pay the consequences. In brief, they don't need to take fans who make fangames for free exposure: they already make their own advertisement and market research and will go on.

...tend to be considered likely fair use.

No. End of story.

btw, japanese companies tend to leave fan works alone because the doujin scene is big and important in japan and they see it as encouraging a larger and more loyal fan community (i.e. more people to buy their official stuff). as has been stated in this thread repeatedly, nintendo cracking down on things like metroid or the mario 64 demo is actually anomalous in their history as a company. zelda classic has already been mentioned. super mario bros X, by the guy who later made terraria, has also been untouched by nintendo lawyers for many years. im just cherry picking some high profile examples here, but there are many more.
and even the metroid "takedown" was pretty half assed. if they actually wanted to stop AM2R being released, they could have done that, like square did with the chrono trigger remake. but they didn't. the game is now irrevocably out there.

I don't know about zelda classic but there must be a reason they don't remove it. Maybe because they don't hurt their sales... or maybe because zelda classic is something so underground that Nintendo doesn't even mind removing it. Seriously, despite SMBX (oh yeah it was killed) or ROM hacking, which have got some coverage (Nindendo indeed killed a lot of ROM hacking Youtube channels), Zelda Classic as little to none. Nintendo will not go after totally underground fan-works, they go after what can hurt their sales and images. I would either. The game is out there because of torrents, and torrent sites are ones of the biggest hassles of the Internet's law enforcement agencies. This isn't a victory, at all!

Its not that simple...

Why should they "adapt"? I'm fine with all this. If i want to watch a movie, i'm gonna buy a DVD... even if that DVD costs €20 (The majority cost from €10 to €15). Or go to Neflix. Now let's find a way to make money without actually selling services... how would they keep their activities? They don't plan things because they're necessarily evil.

There's an entire cottage industry of Copyright enforcement agencies like...

I'm fine with most of this either. Not sure about SOPA because i don't know the full story but i'm totally up for strict copyright protection.

Now, I'm also all to prevent some from being total shitlords and taking advantage of their power, though. In this case, Nintendo wasn't being one, they've done the right thing because AM2R was truly hurting their sales. As entertainment companies shouldn't abuse their power, neither we ordinary people should. This isn't a war between "evil conservatives" and "poor victim good liberals". If there are laws, there must be a reason and i totally agree with enforcement: without it there would be a chaos.

Anyway, i'm not trying to prevent you from making fanworks but, please, just don't act like Copyright laws are "pure evil": you wouldn't like it if someone used your stuff without persmisson.

"State Now Claims It Owns the Wind — Taxing Renewable Energy “Out of Existence”"
"Collecting rainwater now illegal in many states as Big Government claims ownership over our water"
This is what you get when sociopaths rule the world.

These are off-topic... but they also smell like... demagogic.

but why male models

[rj]

anyway, you're literally wrong about what constitutes fair use and don't seem interested in learning more so *whistles* cool, buddy

also i love your constant remarks that nintendo isn't "starving" (what) and sega is given that nintendo's profits this year are dropping more and more and sega's have actually improved by seven million dollars year-over-year in 2016.

[gimymblert]

those words and colors are not "owned" though, they are trademarked. trademark infringement is only a thing if you make a product that could be feasibly be mistaken for the original trademark. that's why there are two unrelated companies named Blizzard for instance (the videogame dev and a ski manufacturer).

Microsoft and hello game was sued over the use of the word "sky" by sky TV, respectively for skydrive (onedrive now) and no man's sky (settle for 40M thanks to sony).

The word candy has been registered across many category and drive early product retroactively out of the market.

And if you create something while working for a big company, the company own your creation in the US (happen with bratz when they become too big and threaten mattel, france has a moral right to creation eternally tied to creator, which prevent outsourcing creativity to france too much).

[s0]

Microsoft and hello game was sued over the use of the word "sky" by sky TV, respectively for skydrive (onedrive now) and no man's sky (settle for 40M thanks to sony).

that doesn't contradict what i said..!

[JWK5]

Let's not forget... the EDGE!!

[Schoq]

Let's not forget... the EDGE!!

reported your post to mr langdell for infringement

[Magurp244]

The game is out there because of torrents, and torrent sites are ones of the biggest hassles of the Internet's law enforcement agencies. This isn't a victory, at all!

The fact you think Torrent sites are the biggest hassle for law enforcement agencies speaks volumes of your naievete. Regardless, torrent sites are a tool, you know like phone books, public radio, VCR's, or Cassette Tapes, all things the movie and music industry screamed bloody murder about. Why in gods name are we using these horrible horseless carriages? When we could be using dependable Equines for transportation!

Why should they "adapt"? I'm fine with all this. If i want to watch a movie, i'm gonna buy a DVD... even if that DVD costs €20 (The majority cost from €10 to €15). Or go to Neflix. Now let's find a way to make money without actually selling services... how would they keep their activities? They don't plan things because they're necessarily evil.

Nobody said they should work for free, people understand economics and it may surprise you, but the most prolific pirates are also the biggest spenders. But doing things the old way is very time consuming and costly, creating a lot of friction to sale. Progress removes that friction with lower costs for manufacturing, distribution, new revenue streams, etc. Bottom line being they could slash overhead, make more money, and reduce some of the inherent risk in film production by engaging more directly with consumers, reducing the probability of box office flops. Case in point: The internet all but demanded Deadpool and not only was it successful, it set an all time record for a Marvel film in profit. Then there's the crowdfunded StarTrek Axanar fan film, Paramount initially set out the lawyers but it seems they've reached an agreement that's mutually beneficial. Right now companies unwillingness to get with the times is frustrating consumer demand and cutting off potential revenue streams, costing them money. For example that DVD you bought? I hope its compatible with your DVD players DRM, or that your in a compatible region, or that the decryption isn't broken. Whats that? They don't even sell that DVD in your region? Oh well, guess there's netflix right? What? They don't have it in your region either? Oh, they used to have it but don't have it listed anymore? Well too bad, go read a book or something, maybe a distributor in your area will buy an expensive license from us so you can buy it from them. Whats that? Buy direct from us?! Why would we ever give up our licensing deals?

I'm fine with most of this either. Not sure about SOPA because i don't know the full story but i'm totally up for strict copyright protection.

Now, I'm also all to prevent some from being total shitlords and taking advantage of their power, though. In this case, Nintendo wasn't being one, they've done the right thing because AM2R was truly hurting their sales. As entertainment companies shouldn't abuse their power, neither we ordinary people should. This isn't a war between "evil conservatives" and "poor victim good liberals". If there are laws, there must be a reason and i totally agree with enforcement: without it there would be a chaos.

Anyway, i'm not trying to prevent you from making fanworks but, please, just don't act like Copyright laws are "pure evil": you wouldn't like it if someone used your stuff without persmisson.

Your... Fine with extortion and political corruption? A better solution is making content available, or if you really have to, Denuvo. Its also a bit of a leap for you to suggest AM2R was impacting Nintendo's sales, for all we know it boosted nintendo's sales by druming up interest for the original Metroid 2 gbrom. But if anything impacted nintendo's sales, it would've been squandering the opportunity of Metroids anniversary. Wouldn't it have made more business sense to talk to the AM2R developers for a licensing deal? Maybe they could do a 3DS port of it for some profitability? Missed opportunities.

I also never said Copyright was "pure evil", I said it wasn't that simple. There is definitely a need for a certain level of copyright protection, you need only look at the barren hellscape of Mobile cloning out of China to see that. But copyright has been perverted to such an extent in recent years its become little more then a crude implement to beat people with, staking out territories of "intellectual property" like petty little fiefdoms. It was originally 14 years with works being put into the public domain after that, which is more than enough time to get a return on investment and spur more productivity. Instead we have people squatting on endless rehashes and buying/selling IP for the sole purpose of suing people, so called "non-practicing entities" AKA: Trolls. Companies need to protect themselves from ripoffs yes, but its not a straight black and white issue.

[gimymblert]

Microsoft and hello game was sued over the use of the word "sky" by sky TV, respectively for skydrive (onedrive now) and no man's sky (settle for 40M thanks to sony).

that doesn't contradict what i said..!

If you can't use the word as a title, it's own, in that you can't have it they can, that's textbook owning

[FK in the Coffee]

If there are laws, there must be a reason and i totally agree with enforcement: without it there would be a chaos.

Also lmao @ the fact that this same line is used all the time to justify police brutality and systemic racism

but that's a conversation for another thread

[Alessio]

Regardless, torrent sites are a tool, you know like phone books, public radio, VCR's, or Cassette Tapes, all things the movie and music industry screamed bloody murder about.

A tool that can be used both legally and illegally. And many chose to distribute things illegally. Is it right? No, Must you stop it since it's illegal? Yes. The what are we talking about?

Nobody said they should work for free, people understand economics and it may surprise you, but the most prolific pirates are also the biggest spenders.

To me it seems like only because pirates make profit for a company then it's justified. You can't erase piracy, but what if you don't "contain" it? It's like an illness: if you don't try to contain an illness, it will spread. And no one wants pirates to spread over the world. Remember they're smugglers, regardless the company's profits.

Progress removes that friction with lower costs for manufacturing, distribution, new revenue streams, etc. Bottom line being they could slash overhead, make more money, and reduce some of the inherent risk in film production by engaging more directly with consumers, reducing the probability of box office flops. Case in point: The internet all but demanded Deadpool and not only was it successful, it set an all time record for a Marvel film in profit. Then there's the crowdfunded StarTrek Axanar fan film, Paramount initially set out the lawyers but it seems they've reached an agreement that's mutually beneficial. Right now companies unwillingness to get with the times is frustrating consumer demand and cutting off potential revenue streams, costing them money. For example that DVD you bought? I hope its compatible with your DVD players DRM, or that your in a compatible region, or that the decryption isn't broken. Whats that? They don't even sell that DVD in your region? Oh well, guess there's netflix right? What? They don't have it in your region either? Oh, they used to have it but don't have it listed anymore? Well too bad, go read a book or something, maybe a distributor in your area will buy an expensive license from us so you can buy it from them. Whats that? Buy direct from us?! Why would we ever give up our licensing deals?

Who are you to decide what are my needs?
Let's put that some people prefer the old fashoned way and that you "progressist" have no literal right to tell other people what they should do. I couldn't care less about progress. I'll move on only when i will need it, not when "someone" decides for me. What if i still use VHS? It's my problem, not yours. Does a company decide to shut down fan works? Mind your own business. Does SEGA decide to treat fans better than their employees? Alright, i've no respect for these kind of people but that's their problem, may they do what they want, i'll not be there to keep them from doing stuff. But don't syndacate over other people's needs, please! That's the nastiest thing one can ever do, after treating people like shit Like SEGA did, as i previously written.

Your... Fine with extortion and political corruption? A better solution is making content available, or if you really have to, Denuvo.

Apperantly, if you like to think that, yeah, i'm in favor of corruption (read: i am not).

Its also a bit of a leap for you to suggest AM2R was impacting Nintendo's sales, for all we know it boosted nintendo's sales by druming up interest for the original Metroid 2 gbrom.

How do you decide it boosted sales? But that's not important anyway. No matter if it boosts sales, i can't let a full free remake of something you can't buy roam in the Web avaiable for all. Or i can but is that really convenient? Neverthless, you've no righto to criticize Nintendo's moves if they don't harm anybody but few disgruntled fans.

But if anything impacted nintendo's sales, it would've been squandering the opportunity of Metroids anniversary. Wouldn't it have made more business sense to talk to the AM2R developers for a licensing deal? Maybe they could do a 3DS port of it for some profitability? Missed opportunities.

Reggie Fils-Aime would reply in this way.
Again, stop syndacating over what people should do or how people should protect their properies!

I also never said Copyright was "pure evil"

You write like it was though... or better, you write like there should be more freedom. But freedom, if not checked upon, can get out of hand. And that's bad.

But copyright has been perverted to such an extent in recent years its become little more then a crude implement to beat people with, staking out territories of "intellectual property" like petty little fiefdoms

If that bothers you, then, you should go after the shitlords who abuse their power and not go against Nintendo because they've done something you just don't like but it's not all that wrong.

Companies need to protect themselves from ripoffs yes, but its not a straight black and white issue.

I've the feeling that, when people say "it's gray" they mean that "it's more white than black". But, if it's gray, it an tend also to black. "It's a grey area" doesn't mean "i can do it".

Also lmao @ the fact that this same line is used all the time to justify police brutality and systemic racism

That's felony and corruption. If, unfortunately, there is a law where it's legal to be racist, that's a serious social problem that can't even be compared to things like Copyright and IPs. But that's off-topic. Luckly, i don't live in North Korea.

[rj]

If, unfortunately, there is a law where it's legal to be racist, that's a serious social problem that can't even be compared to things like Copyright and IPs. But that's off-topic.. Luckly, i don't live in North Korea.

ok you've proved yourself an idiot several times over now but i'm enjoying the presumption that north korea is somehow the only place where racism is legal, much less institutionalized

are you twelve

[FK in the Coffee]

even though I'm always down for a conversation about systemic/institutional racism and police brutality, I think we should probably reel it in on this thread and continue it somewhere else

the fact that he thinks SEGA somehow hates its fans after hiring a few of their biggest ones and putting out Generations p specifically to please long-time fans is dum

[rj]

shit dude if you're too convinced sega is apparently Bad and Starving (which has no basis in reality) why not look at how Valve handles things like Black Mesa

[JWK5]

Alessio, when you tell people to "Stop telling people what they should do!" aren't you telling people what they should do (i.e. telling them what they should not be telling others)? You're talking about who has the right to say what or criticize what, but where did you get that right to decide whether they have that right or not? Why is what a company does nobody's business, but how people react to what they do your business? I recommend toning things down a bit.

[gimymblert]

some gonna hate it