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[Oleg Klishin]

Being a freelance artist it's no surprise I'm approached with revenue share offers from time to time. So far I had no experience with doing revenue share work or other types of "free" work except gamejams. And curiously enough I personally don't know people who ever got paid with a percent out of finished project earnings. I'm not speaking about established dedicated teams with unified vision putting much effort to push the project to release. But rather about ads like in "job offerings" forum.

I'm not against revenue share in general, just want to see if anyone can confirm they ever actually got paid agreed percent after doing some work for a project.

[Grhyll]

My input may not be extremely valuable, but I have worked with 2 people on a rev-share model, on a very small hobby project, and for now we earned so little that we didn't do any split yet (I may have earned something like $30 or $40, and another one of us some dollars as well). I should make something, at least to let them know where we're at (we do not have any contact since the end of the project, we didn't know each other before and did this mainly to see if we could make a more serious project later; it won't happen), but it looks like a lot of efforts for a very small amount of money. I plan on doing it someday though, maybe for the one year anniversary of the release.
For my current project, I work with only one guy on a rev-share model, but we are basically equally involved, so even if it's not a friend, I feel it's as much my project as his, so we fail or win together.
However, for my next project, I plan on trying to recruit people with a paid/rev-share mix model. This will be a serious project, my serious project, and I don't expect people to work on it with only a promise that maybe some day they will get money, because I don't think it's a viable way to do professional work (unless between friends as you mentionned). If the project isn't really lead by solid people with strong experience, I read the "rev-share" mention as "we don't really know what we do, our experience is limited and the game will probably never be completed". (Of course it's not always the case, but it may be true in a lot of cases.)

[heyguy]

@Grhyll Can I ask what the percentage of the profit you are suppose to make? By that I mean, was it 5%, 10%?

And you say "but it looks like a lot of efforts for a very small amount of money." How much did you contribute?

What percentage do you think is fair for an artist? What would a fair percentage for you be @Phoenix849?

I ask this questions because I might get involved in a revenue thing with an acquaintance in my city. He's offered my 2.5 % of the profit and .5% for every month I work on it till release. Seems a little low considering I just read a sprite sheet can go for 600-1000$...?

[Grhyll]

On the project I was telling about, we were only two at the beginning and decided on a 50/50 because it was simpler that way. After that a sound guy joined and we just decided to go with "shares" automatically won every week one does work on the game. It is very simplistic and doesn't acknowledge the differences in work time, but we knew from start that we wouldn't make a lot of money anyway. So by the end, I guess the artist and me were at something like 45% and the sound guy at 10% (calculating the precise numbers is part of what I should do to make the situation clear, I do have some ways to see if someone contributed on any given week thanks to git).
I think I spent a very larger amount of time on the project than the artist, but I was not at his place to be sure of this, I'm just estimating the time it must have taken him to do his tasks.

Regarding the shares you're offered, how many people are working on this project?
0.5% for every month you work looks very weird to me; so if you work 200 months you get 100%? 300 months you get 150%? I wouldn't really trust someone offering me incremental percents, but I may lack experience on this question. Anyway, the real question is: will this game ever be finished? Do the people leading it have any experience on releasing games? I would totally distrust them if they ask for rev-share without any released game (not asking for 200000+ players on Steam, but at least one or two browser based free game to prove they can accomplish something in its entirety).

[heyguy]

Thanks a lot for your quick response!

Right now it's a team of 3 working on this project. The main creator of the game idea who is creating basic art, coding, designing, writing story and even making music. There's me, the professional artist. And there's one more person writing story. I think it's obvious the main creator should get the largest share of the profit but I've created a lot for the game already.

I met the creator through a friend and we all got together to work on this project. Thanks for bringing up things like will the game ever be finished and if he's ever published a game. We've been at it for over a year with very little to show for it. Our milestones/goals have basically been nonexistent. The Design Doc was nonexistent until recently. I've spent a lot of time creating good and unique pixel art for free(some of it very high quality stuff) with nothing to show for it. I've got some cool portfolio pieces out of it but that's it. What you said is actually kind of wake up call for me, thank you.

We recently got into a program that will allow us to meet industry professionals and get mentored while creating our game. A great opportunity! And I want to be involved. But I won't do it for free anymore. We finally talked revenue sharing and I was offered 2.5% plus .5% after each month. After all the research I've done, that seems like an incredibly low and I won't do it for that either. I'll potentially be creating a large percentage of the artwork and I can create a lot of artwork at a professional (or near professional) level. The creator's art skills are basic so my art will help the game stand out (or at least help the game look visually pleasing).

Anyway, just trying to get a sense of the numbers and what's reasonable when it comes to revenue sharing. I'm American and I'm located in California if that helps. I actually talked to the creator today and he says he actually offered me 15%. He didn't but I think that is still too low considering the work I've done and will potentially do.

edit: a little more info. I'll be doing pixel art stuff mainly. I'll be doing sprite sheets, animations, characters, buttons, menu windows, enivornment tilemaps, effects and more. In programs like photoshop, graphicsgale, spriter, pyxledit and more. I'm painting box art for the game in photoshop right now for that's taking me 7 hours so far. I'm also doing lots of character and object designs on pen and paper.

[Grhyll]

First of all, as a quick reminder, take everything I (or other members) could say with a grain of salt, as nobody has the same experience as you. I guess it is common sense, but I don't want to sound like my "advices" are the best and only way to go, they are just based on my limited personal experience.

There's nothing wrong imo about giving away free time for a project that matters, even if it's never finished, it all depends on your goals. If you have a job in addition to this project and you work on it because you like it, the money issue could be not as important as if you're trying to be recognized as a professional in the domain, with your art as only income.
It would be kind of sad if a money issue made you stop working on something you love (as long as you have enough to live :D ).
On the opposite side, did that guy you're working for conduct some market research or things like that? Of course it's not impossible the game becomes a new Undertale or something like that, bringing in millions, but it's more probable that it doesn't make money at all, so the exact percent of your share is suddenly less important.
Once again, just general thoughts.

[Oleg Klishin]

If the project isn't really lead by solid people with strong experience, I read the "rev-share" mention as "we don't really know what we do, our experience is limited and the game will probably never be completed".

Yeah, these are my thoughts on the topic as well.

What percentage do you think is fair for an artist? What would a fair percentage for you be @Phoenix849?

Honestly, no idea. From 50/50 on a two-man team, to much less depending on the number of people involved. From my point of view the more people you have, the more questionable the whole idea looks overral. Is art or music "more important"? Does person A "works harder" than person B? Too many question and uncertainties here. That's why I wanted to ask people who had better experiences about this.

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Heyguy: if the money is a factor in whether you'll take the job or not (sounds like it is) don't do it. That job is deeply underpaying, if it's paying at all. Revenue share is extremely risky for someone providing assets -- you don't know whether the project will make money, or whether it will make nothing, or whether it will springboard into future projects that make money, but you get none of -- and you're laying out thousands or tens of thousands of dollars worth of work just to find out. Revenue share should pay more, on an average sales result, than you would earn in salary doing the

 same job. Even for a large company with an established brand who's guaranteed success I'd be very distrustful of 2.5% of profit (not even revenue) for a game i'm 1/4th of. Walk from the deal, if you want to work for free do it on a project you actually believe in.

[M2M_Studios]

It really does matter on a lot of factors. I've had some terrible experiences as well as some equally good ones. Do keep in mind , even though I say 'good' none of these projects has ever reached a state where I've been paid for my efforts. That's the thing with rev-share. Do your research first. Don't blindly accept a project just because it's by someone you know personally. 

[DireLogomachist]

I've had some terrible experiences as well as some equally good ones.

Can I ask how much was made off of a good one? You can ballpark it if you want.

I hear a lot of people advertising rev-shares, but I haven't ever heard of any money made from them...

[M2M_Studios]

I've had some terrible experiences as well as some equally good ones.

Can I ask how much was made off of a good one? You can ballpark it if you want.

I hear a lot of people advertising rev-shares, but I haven't ever heard of any money made from them...

I've done 4 projects that have collectively made me around 1000$ (yes , it is a ballpark). These are only the good ones. My advice to you is to do research on the team that has approached you and make sure they are capable of releasing the game in spite of any odds. That's the most important factor. Most rev-share projects start from sort of profound epiphany but that quickly dies out.

[keo]

Here's what worked for our team.  

Rev share wasn't going to cut it for us, nobody can commit completely to a project and work 9-5 elsewhere for basic living unless they are sitting on adequate savings or grew up financially well off.

My partner had adequate savings from working software, to commit to the project full time, where as I had zero and a job serving donuts.  We agreed to a paid-per-asset model that would later turn into rev share/stock in the company that formed out of the collab.  I charged a pretty low rate, just enough to get by and see the project take off.  We lived pretty frugally at our parents' places cutting out excess and working 9-5 on the project.

A year of doing that, another team member on board, an unsuccessful kickstarter but a successful greenlight, we decided to go the steam early access route, and we switched to a rev share model.  We've been able to sustain development since then and not live with our parents.   success

You definitely should do risk assessment when deciding to take on a job.  It helps to also know who you're working with, are they reliable, disciplined, someone you can see yourself interfacing with on a daily basis.  I knew my teammates before taking on this venture, from game jams.  A big risk is someone deciding to abandon the project, though money holds people accountable, which rev share alone lacks.  Research the market for the game: is there one?  We knew there was, as we were building off some of our favorites.  There are plenty of things to consider.

[DireLogomachist]

We've been able to sustain development since then and not live with our parents.   success

That's pretty awesome! What's your game on Steam?

[Orymus]

I think a mixed model can work, so long as you consider the rev-share a bonus in case the project really starts lifting, but I stay away from rev-share.
I've been involved in several rev-share projects, and this is generally symptomatic of the poor project structure.
The reason why most people do rev-share is not because they have less money, it's because they are less inclined to invest themselves in the project (take risks). If they aren't willing to take at least some financial risks on your behalf, you can generally assume they do so with everything else within the project, and that's a poor standard to get things done (even moreso if you intend on making anything good).
So it's not so much an assessment of the rev-share model per se, but rather, the individuals that tend to promote it.
Even "in the industry", most studios that agree to a rev-share as the vendor don't break even (or come even close) so...

I only work on a "rev-share" model with my business partner because we both have equity in our company and decided to make our salaries (for now) entirely dependant on sales (and him + me do not = 100% as we want the company to start growing on its own as well). As mentioned above, this is a different arrangement because we fail or succeed together, and we are not labor for someone else.

I wouldn't consider working on a rev-share model again unless I have a lot of control over the end product (and I mean A LOT) OR I was asked by people with a very strong background and published games that were actually good, but by then, I'd expect them to have money too, so I'd be surprised 'bout a fully rev-share model in the first place.