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[saturdaymorning]

I saw this earlier today on da Gaf. For what it's worth:

Ok well first I'd like to mention that when making this post this is not an endorsement of what Phil said. It was a pretty terrible thing to say and turning around to see the guy's face at the mic made me feel bad inside. I recall his question was about what the panelists thought about Japanese games today and maybe he thought the answer would've been more inviting given the posters that were up in that one bedroom during the movie

Now I haven't really seen any mention of what the criticisms were up to page 5 and from page 13 onward so maybe someone mentioned this but unfortunately nobody's talking about it so I'll butt in a little. I don't remember word for word what is said but this current discussion kind of stinks so whatever.

One of Phil and Jonothan's problems with modern Japanese games (at least what was said during panel) was the amount of hand holding that goes on in them. Fish cited Zelda as an example; LoZ dropped you into a world without any instruction on what to do, you went ahead and figured out how to do things on your own, bombable walls were actual secrets, etc. So basically LoZ had a sense of discovery to it that he really valued. But Skyward Sword doesn't have that; bombable walls are really obvious because there's this crack in the wall, tutorials are too long, the game often interrupts you and makes sure to list out, step by step, what you're supposed to do next, then reconfirm you got it right after you finished or whatever.

Jonothan expanded on that by saying that some games (not sure if he meant Japanese specific) can become too polished, to the point that there's not really any game left because there's no way for the player to try and do their own thing. Basically everything has an arrow pointing to it and "you should go do this!". No sense of vulnerability, no sense of experimentation, a very sterile experience. I only remember Zelda as the example they cited having this problem, so I'm not really sure what other Japanese games they had in mind under that criteria.

Also, they had no problem with Dark Souls and Street Fighter 4. They just kind of went "Dark Souls is good. Yeah Street Fighter 4 is ok".

I probably do them a disservice by writing this up but I believe I got the sentiment of what their criticisms were. Hopefully they'll have something more accurate coming out soon but again Phil's comment was really stupid and I'd hate to be the guy that came up to the mic and heard his fucking awful response.

@Reheddeht noby noby boy?

lol

[Dragonmaw]

This just in: Phil Fish says something dumb and his ego runs rampant. More never, because nobody gives a fuck and this isn't surprising at all.

[AshfordPride]

"Too much polish can be dangerous."
- Phil Fish, creator of a platform game that took five years to make

[Tanner]

That would be hilarious, but Jon Blow was the one to say that.

[keo]

gossip culture

[Bandages]

I'm gonna post this here in the hopes someone watches it, if you haven't already!





You could even consider sharing this video with others if you feel inclined to after viewing it. 

(no embedded video function? kk)

[Painting]

Looking at a stranger straight in the eye and telling him that his games suck because of his race is so mind-bogglingly dumb and cruel, especially if your main claim to fame is that you haven't released a platformer with a guy with a red hat.

That's never been done before, right?

[Hangedman]

what

[Inanimate]

Looking at a stranger straight in the eye and telling him that his games suck because of his race is so mind-bogglingly dumb and cruel

That's not what happened. (Though I don't agree with what did.)

[ink.inc]

I'm gonna post this here in the hopes someone watches it, if you haven't already!





You could even consider sharing this video with others if you feel inclined to after viewing it. 

(no embedded video function? kk)

These guys did a presentation at my high school two years ago.

[Superb Joe]

Looking at a stranger straight in the eye and telling him that his games suck because of his race is so mind-bogglingly dumb and cruel

That's not what happened. (Though I don't agree with what did.)

yeah, for a start one or both of them were most assuredly staring at the ground, a wall, their hands, a steam powered gameboy, anywhere but the eyes of another living soul

[unsilentwill]

You could even consider sharing this video with others if you feel inclined to after viewing it. 

No, seriously. What's explained in this video is probably the best use of the internet I've ever heard of. And with all the ego-bruising and gdc, I'm hoping it's not overlooked by us.

John, look at what has happened since then. It's so mindbogglingly positive.

If you're going to post in this thread about how much you don't like what a guy said about video games once, watch the video and see how important another Fish debate really is.

("hey this is the unimportant thread, i don't have to be reasonable here!" I'd honestly rather people start a h8 fish/notch/johnblow thread somewhere and get it out your systems.)

[Superb Joe]

You could even consider sharing this video with others if you feel inclined to after viewing it. 

No, seriously. What's explained in this video is probably the best use of the internet I've ever heard of. And with all the ego-bruising and gdc, I'm hoping it's not overlooked by us.

John, look at what has happened since then. It's so mindbogglingly positive.

If you're going to post in this thread about how much you don't like what a guy said about video games once, watch the video and see how important another Fish debate really is.

("hey this is the unimportant thread, i don't have to be reasonable here!" I'd honestly rather people start a h8 fish/notch/johnblow thread somewhere and get it out your systems.)

in the spirit of the indie games counter culture, i will instead send a friend request to joshua blahyi on facebook

[Painting]

If you're going to post in this thread about how much you don't like what a guy said about video games once

gonna stop you here because that is all we do on this forum

[BlueSweatshirt]

so what, are we trying to make "indie" synonymous to "insular, insensitive prick"?

I don't know about you guys, but I just went and shared this video everywhere I could.

[Bandages]

I also shared that video where I could. I don't really have any large internet audience besides a few communities full of lovelies like this one

I also bought the kit

Strange that the poster-event night is 4/20... going to make it hard to convince a lot of my friends to come with me. unless I can somehow mix the holiday with the work...

[Painting]

so what, are we trying to make "indie" synonymous to "insular, insensitive prick"?

I hate to break it to you, but that's exactly what most non-indies think about us.

To be honest, you couldn't have picked a better phrase. Maybe throw in "hipster" somewhere.

[Bandages]

Painting, there's no need to be so needlessly aggressive.

Most non-indies don't think anyone who makes a work on their own is an "insular, insensitive prick". Maybe "hipster" like you said, but that's only because people love using that word because it's one of those social memes that we can cling to instead of making creative or insightful remarks.

Don't be so paranoid. There's no "us" versus "them". In fact, there is no "us". Indies aren't a collective. They're independent. That's kind of the whole thing. People.

People don't like Fish because he can come across as some kind of know-it-all snooty buttpirate. People don't equate Fish and Cactus together. Or Fish and the team behind Bastion. Or Fish and you. Fish is just fish.

I dunno, maybe I'm just in paladin mode because of the Kony thing being fresh in my mind, but I don't see why you're committed to being negative and propagating schizophrenic and antisocial stereotypes about a group of individuals that are entirely defined by their autonomy.

[Painting]

I apologize for any specific aggression on my part - I get bitter really easily about things that don't warrant bitterness. But I'd appreciate if you didn't call me schizophrenic and antisocial in the same post as chastising me.

The thing is that it's easy for us, as in Us Participants in the Indie Community, to say that it's composed of discrete and individual personalities. The issue here is comparable to that of "Anonymous": ostensibly more of a banner for similar personalities than any official group or community. But there are people who claim "Anonymous" as a label for their little insular group, and there are people who paint all of "Anonymous" with the same brush, seeing it as one massive community of identical people.

"Indie" ostensibly just refers to anyone who makes an independent game. But to say that that's exactly how everyone thinks about it is laughable to all but the spergiest people - many people, even on these very forums, try to assign all indies a collective manifesto or creed. IF YOU'RE NOT INDIE, FUCK YOU! And many people who are uninterested in independent works see "indies" as a very clear group - specifically, insular, insensitive, hipster pricks. Pricks who make independent games. You see? It's nice to say that there's no "us" versus "them" - and there isn't in the eyes of any rational person - but on the Internet, rational people are uncommon.

[BlueSweatshirt]

For the record, he wasn't calling you schizophrenic or antisocial, he was referring to the stereotypes you were describing. "[...] propagating schizophrenic and antisocial stereotypes about a group [...] "