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[rj]

sonic generations was a lil off the mark. it was solid (like, really solid) but classic sonic played with weirder, stockier physics than he should have and his design was a little strange and modern sonic (who played better!) was basically sonic rush 3D (or sonic unleashed, which is the same thing) instead of something like adventure 2, which was more open than that and a little less go go go go go go go stop go go go go go

[gimymblert]

Sonic 2D was perfected, we already have engine, level analysis to the death, level design guideline, stellar good 2D games, good but average games, speedy games, exploration games, classic timeless game, damn good fan game from multiple interpretation.

We need more 3D games because that's where it can expend and it is weak.

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Looks like the light and fog setting are imported from the cave, making the graphics more atmospheric and add necessary volume, look at how the penumbras are harsher and the fog is greenish. The default have a more flat cartoony look, but even mario 64 add a bit of (white) fog to make distance more readable and give scale. It's looks like an artist fail more than a technical fail.

isnt the fog in mario 64 due to the n64's infamous draw distance issues?

Not  mario 64,

are you kidding? running a game on a modern pc on an emulator =/= running the game on n64 hardware.

Fog is used for atmospheric/visual reasons constantly in 3d, ya, but it was also obviously used to disguise the distance culling in old 3d games, such as mario 64, ya dork.

CA: There are a lot of moving parts involved in making 3d art for a game. It's totally understandable to target a certain visual style which is theoretically achievable and it not end up being practical with your other goals by the time the project is done. You show the best stuff you have to the press, so the build with the cool shadows makes more sense than the one with all of the hacky unfinished art, etc.

Also imagine a scenario like this:

-Mapper designs a level with a late evening sun, and long shadows everywhere
-Environment artists deliver a major setpiece that needs to be in that level, and it looks really bad under that lighting situation
-The sun is moved to high noon, and you make a note to go back over and polish the map visually for the new lighting, since eveything was placed to look good with the long evening shadows
-Deadline approaching, moving all of the visual polish around on an already finished map never ends up happening, and the game is shipped with ugly lighting on that level.

'graphics downgrade'

[gimymblert]

The game run in emulator yes, but the emulator don't add extra polygon, it does not make magic, mario 64 is not turok64, the fog isn't design here to hide things but to give scale

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

The game run in emulator yes, but the emulator don't add extra polygon, it does not make magic, mario 64 is not turok64, the fog isn't design here to hide things but to give scale

the emulator sure as hell changes the resolution and the fog draw distance. Run the game on actual n64 hardware without the fog and get back to me ~ the framerate already tanks in scenarios where you have more objects drawn in mario 64.

[gimymblert]

A note about deadline: They were ask to add shadow (the character) and metal sonic last second, also christmas loom at the horizon ...

The game run in emulator yes, but the emulator don't add extra polygon, it does not make magic, mario 64 is not turok64, the fog isn't design here to hide things but to give scale

the emulator sure as hell changes the resolution and the fog draw distance. Run the game on actual n64 hardware without the fog and get back to me ~ the framerate already tanks in scenarios where you have more objects drawn in mario 64.

I'm sorry but it does not change a thing, mario 64 is my favorite game I know how it looks, the level geometry has no culling except for active objects who have different draw distance (such as regular coin or red coin), they works the same in the emulator but their pops is made more evident (such as the LOD of character like mario). You also have the case of interior and exterior that pop, but fog have nothing to do with it. Fog my behave differently but it's function still remain to scale and no hide in this particular game. In fact the fog barely hide anything, there is pop in even in n64.

[gimymblert]

Here compare the two

[s0]

CA: There are a lot of moving parts involved in making 3d art for a game. It's totally understandable to target a certain visual style which is theoretically achievable and it not end up being practical with your other goals by the time the project is done. You show the best stuff you have to the press, so the build with the cool shadows makes more sense than the one with all of the hacky unfinished art, etc.

Also imagine a scenario like this:

-Mapper designs a level with a late evening sun, and long shadows everywhere
-Environment artists deliver a major setpiece that needs to be in that level, and it looks really bad under that lighting situation
-The sun is moved to high noon, and you make a note to go back over and polish the map visually for the new lighting, since eveything was placed to look good with the long evening shadows
-Deadline approaching, moving all of the visual polish around on an already finished map never ends up happening, and the game is shipped with ugly lighting on that level.

'graphics downgrade'

ok i guess thats true, sorry for being dum

[Blademasterbobo]

the only thing here im gonna have to disagree with is that sonic was ever better than mario... or ever even good

every sonic game is bad, some are just more bad

[gimymblert]

Opinion feel free to disagree

[Blademasterbobo]

sonic can be said to nuke things from orbit in that a nuclear strike is often a catastrophic and terrible event

or in that the aftermath often causes horrific mutations to spawn from any life caught in its blast radius

[gimymblert]

That's true you can see he didn't get much protected by the radiation while mario had stay safe under an anti nuke shelter, the horrible mutation he had to suffer make us pity he isn't dead yet

[s0]

sanorc is just more polarizing than malleo because mareo, as a character, is literally nothing

[rj]

in other sonic news someone literally just made an account on here to insult me in a pm because i said sonic heroes was a bad game and i haven't laughed harder in ages

[jiitype]

Holy shit that's awesome

[rj]

i feel really accomplished right now

[s0]

i hate on popular games all the time and this has never happened to me. i feel so unloved

[rj]

your opinions aren't controversial enough

my opinions are controversial

apparently

i'm actually impressed; i said it on the youtube video for game grumps' first sonic boom episode and they tracked me down to make an account just to write a pathetic insult

like, dedication, man

[gimymblert]

sanorc is just more polarizing than malleo because mareo, as a character, is literally nothing

Also mario is more purer in its gameplay, there is no subtle concept, it's a guy and he jump, jump onto blocks, jump on to enemy, jump across pit ... what you see is what you get, that makes level design really straightforward.

sonic is much more subtle there is two plane, jump depend on speed and angle of platform, the world is more naturalistic, movement intricately tied to level design, you must understand the level to enjoy it, and there is a burden on the level designer to make really good flow to counter understanding with spectacle.

The result is that in the same timespan, you get less than 20 levels in a sonic game for th eentire game, mario surpass 50-ish levels by iteration.

Plus mario have power ups as gimmicks that do the heavy lifting to add variety across level or iteration of the franchise. In fact major change between iteration is mostly items and new level, so much you can literally associate each sequels to a set of items.

Except mario 64, this game is the sonic of mario game.

[gimymblert]

your opinions aren't controversial enough

my opinions are controversial

apparently

i'm actually impressed; i said it on the youtube video for game grumps' first sonic boom episode and they tracked me down to make an account just to write a pathetic insult

like, dedication, man

sonicgate

Seriously they hit a lot of good and unique things in this series, even in the bad games, where there is no competing series to compare off, sonic is as much a platformer as mario in the same way metroid prime is related to doom. Plus the visual design is really clever and unique, even with the bad variation.

That help capturing a public and fuel fanatism when you have such a strong identity. It also fuels dev lazyness