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« Reply #25700 on: September 09, 2016, 02:11:06 PM » |
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Alto's Adventure is pretty popular
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gimymblert
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« Reply #25701 on: September 10, 2016, 03:04:35 PM » |
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fan artist are my new hero, they are the new indie, they surely have the spirits intacts
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s0
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« Reply #25703 on: September 10, 2016, 03:52:10 PM » |
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One Friday afternoon, the producer on The Darkness II said they needed someone to write descriptions for 30 collectibles by Monday. They had art (a tomahawk, an Aztec knife, etc.). They were random objects the developer thought looked cool. They needed someone to write a 250-word backstory for each relic, and make sure they all combined to tell the story of [a secret supernatural war] that spanned all of human history. In two days." Video Games |
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s0
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« Reply #25704 on: September 10, 2016, 04:49:29 PM » |
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you know, this article made me think about how the "tutorial has to be part of the story" crap in modern games is really limiting and creates all sorts of pacing issues #bringbackmanuals
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gimymblert
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« Reply #25705 on: September 10, 2016, 05:00:11 PM » |
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If u don't lik tutorial you don't lik manual
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s0
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« Reply #25706 on: September 10, 2016, 05:01:04 PM » |
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??
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s0
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« Reply #25707 on: September 10, 2016, 05:02:55 PM » |
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the larger point is that videogame designers often approach theme in a boring and over-literal way. in my opinion at least.
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #25708 on: September 10, 2016, 05:13:40 PM » |
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Maybe it's just that they're really ungraceful about it? Plenty of games have tutorial areas that are perfectly integrated into the experience.
like maybe that souls series you like so much, huh?
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s0
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« Reply #25709 on: September 10, 2016, 05:15:17 PM » |
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but souls "tutorials" are notoriously bad at actually teaching the player
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ProgramGamer
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« Reply #25710 on: September 10, 2016, 05:18:46 PM » |
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Wasn't your point about pacing and story being affected though?
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s0
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« Reply #25711 on: September 10, 2016, 05:32:05 PM » |
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read the article. having to set up a situation where it's plausible that the protagonist has to learn everything limits storytelling. hence why there are so many games where the protag has amnesia for instance. it also affects pacing because if the tutorial absolutely has to be part of the story, simply dropping the player into the action isn't possible, or only to a very limited degree.
to be clear, im not saying it should never be done, im saying it isn't universally "good game design" and shouldnt be accepted as dogma.
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« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 05:37:30 PM by Silbereisen »
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Capntastic
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« Reply #25712 on: September 10, 2016, 05:34:35 PM » |
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"Hey, Big Boss, we know you're a super soldier whose very existence shifted the Earth on its axis, but we need to teach you how to walk, run, and fire a gun"
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s0
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« Reply #25713 on: September 10, 2016, 05:37:56 PM » |
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the basics of CQC are easy to forget it seems
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gimymblert
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« Reply #25714 on: September 10, 2016, 05:38:58 PM » |
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It's like saying exposition is detrimental to story, bad exposition (like in exposition dump) is still serving the story, you can't just get rid of it and call it a day. Bad narrative tutorial are just that, and the problem shown in this article are more to do with the fact that writing is tacked on after design rather than BE the design.
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Capntastic
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« Reply #25715 on: September 10, 2016, 05:43:33 PM » |
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Yeah obviously if you incorporate it into the story fluidly it works but the point is that it usually isn't and yet it still happens all the time.
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s0
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« Reply #25716 on: September 10, 2016, 05:52:19 PM » |
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Yeah obviously if you incorporate it into the story fluidly it works
yes, but a story has to be a certain way for a tutorial to make thematic sense. hence it can be better to have a non-narrative tutorial (or no tutorial) so you can leave that part out and get to the story you actually wanted to tell. again, i'm not arguing that narrative tutorials are wrong, i'm arguing that they shouldn't be a universal standard. |
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Capntastic
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« Reply #25717 on: September 10, 2016, 05:55:02 PM » |
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The above was in response to Gimmy saying "bad exposition (like in exposition dump) is still serving the story, you can't just get rid of it and call it a day. Bad narrative tutorial are just that"
I think tutorials work best as a menu option and not like "hey just checking but you remember how to jump right"
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s0
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« Reply #25718 on: September 10, 2016, 06:17:47 PM » |
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i wasn't really disagreeing with you, more restating my point lol.
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Capntastic
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« Reply #25719 on: September 10, 2016, 06:32:30 PM » |
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Yeah but I am likewise clarifying!!!!!!!
Anyways I think tutorials are the worst, because there's always going to be this sense of "when does the game really start"
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Player
