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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralSuper Mario Galaxy Intro Video
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Melly
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« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2007, 10:45:29 PM »

I guess I should apologize if my post seemed insulting. Wasn't really my goal, and I guess the words came out wrong. It's just that I often see people complain about sequels to their favorite old school games and it often is about nitpicking specific aspects of the game they just don't like.

I personally don't think the 3D Marios break the spirit of the 2D ones. As far as translating the platform jumping and block smashing I think they did a very good job, certainly better than most people would expect. Maybe the issue is that they cattered to the 3D trend simply because everybody else was doing so, but one reason Mario keeps himself going strong is that Shigeru isn't afraid on experimenting with the character. And he does so while preserving the experience of playing with Mario, unlike some other ill-fated franchises out there.
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« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2007, 11:05:37 PM »

Been looking forward to this for ages. That intro looks excellent! Pointless, but excellent.

I'm not fond of that camera though, seems a bit low. But I'm guessing that's just for effect since it's only an intro. If the whole game's like that, I'm gonna be upset.
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« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2007, 11:12:17 PM »

I dunno.  I think it's silly to write off 3rd person platformers as a flawed mechanic.  I personally think that Mario 64 plays great -- it was slightly hampered by some poor camera controls.  Movement on the joystick was always relative to the direction the camera was pointing, and the camera would sometimes weep around the character as you'd move, forcing you to constantly make minute direction adjustments.  But Nintendo was inventing all the rules for the modern 3d platformer here, so I can forgive them.

The first person 3d viewpoint has a whole bundle of its own problems, like never really being able to tell how much area you're taking up in space and where you will collide with things.
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« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2007, 11:17:07 PM »

I care not what anyone says, there is no fucking way mario64 ruined a damn thing. It's one of the greatest games ever created with so many amazing sections that you forget just how many it has.  Huh?
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« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2007, 03:10:26 AM »

Everything is not equal. The moderate middle ground is not automatically the correct answer. The eagerness to appear unbiased and balanced by being moderate seems to be a far more common thing than favoring one side more than the other.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if it turned out that the game industry and a pretty big demgraphic is favoring looks over gameplay.

I'm sure Mario Galaxies will have a fantastic polish though. I just find it regrettable that I must operate it thought a layer which makes my avatar act like a skew eyed ADD kid, and I don't consider attaining the skill of being able to compensate for that to be... fun.

I think there had been close to a decade of inventing the 3D platformer before Mario 64 came along. I remember thinking it wasn't new at all when it came out. It just looked like a Mario game... with all the Mario game missing.
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2007, 05:27:15 AM »

What the hell happened to this thread...?
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2007, 09:08:59 AM »

I agree to a fairly large extent about control of a character in this perspective, but I think that

a) it's something that can be learned
b) it's something that can be repaired by good game design.

For instance, I found the level design and general controls in Jak and Daxter to be very awesome, but the controls and gameplay in Mario 64 to be terrible. Having said that I absolutely LOVE Mario Sunshine, so somewhere between M64 and MS there's a change for the better for me.

For the most part I think that the thumb stick is a poor controller for most games, especially those requiring twitch movement. The thumb just isn't very articulate.

edit: well, I lie a little about Mario 64 - the controls of the character fit the thumbstick very well, and were obviously polished to a very high degree - performing any given move was not very difficult - but the viewing angle, camera controls and level design don't. I also agree that it loses a lot of what made the 2D Marios great, but disagree that this makes it less of a good game. I think what was added in place (to my mind, freeform platforming, something not many games have since reproduced) made up for the loss of the old Mario style quite well.
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Arne
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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2007, 11:10:34 AM »

konjak> I broke the circlejerk chain by just sitting there masturbating furiously on my own (to vintage porn). And people we're like, Hey! Come sit with us. And I was like, No, I don't fap with third person like that, I prefer more control.

Hao> Complete reversal!

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« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2007, 11:20:11 AM »

Can't say I've found the third person cam being clumsy in anything but Mario, and I think that's because of the slidey momentum on the character.  I also don't play many games of the type though.

From what I've seen the planetoid segments look interesting, I'd like to see how the radial gravity could be explored.

The whole Mario franchise strikes me as aggressively bland though.  The more the series has matured the more it picks up all this baggage.  I think the early games were appealing in part because they were just set in a mushroom kingdom.  It wasn't really important what that was, just that it's an adventure with mushrooms and turtles and running and jumping.  But by Mario Sunshine you have Mario going on vacation to the marioverse's version of Florida in an airliner.

Now I can't see the characters as anything other than those foam headed mascots at Disneyland.  It's very sterile and bloated.  Maybe I say this just because I don't have Nintendo Nostalgia.
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« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2007, 12:14:08 PM »

Arne, do you like anything recent? :D
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Arne
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« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2007, 01:24:38 PM »

I dunno, does Dwarf Fortress count? Imagine something next-gen with a DF mentality towards its design, sprinkle lightly with panties (okay, heavily, but with very light panties) and you might have something I like.

If we stay on the topic of Mario, I'd love to see something like in the intro video taken into gameplay, i.e. a living universe with ecosystems, a dynamic functioning society which can be manipulated. Maybe you play Bowser and get to design all your forces, recruiting Koopa troopas, designing and constructing air ships. It all ends happily when you kidnap the princess. Imagine 10 000 Koopas storming over a hill, just like LotR, then Koopa kicks down Mario into a well screaming "This is ..." ...uh. Maybe not. But I'd love to play a Mario game with a bit more tangible feel of how the world looks and how the interactions of the Mushrooms and Koopa forces works.

There was a bunch of new MG trailers uploaded on GameTrailers a while ago. Although the wrapping of playfield onto spheres is somewhat novel, I can't really see any significant gain in terms of gameplay. If you unwrap things it looks like the mechanics are pretty simple. Most videos so far have been push butan reciev star. There was some more flesh in the boss battle segment, but I think it still looks kinda thin. There's some potential for interesting 3D puzzles though, walking around, into, under, manipulating geometries.


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Melly
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« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2007, 02:43:02 PM »

Wouldn't developing Mario's world more also make it lose some of its simplistic, gameplay-oriented charm?
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« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2007, 03:21:12 PM »

I read that the Mario team came up with the game-world-on-spheres concept because it's really good for the camera control.  you have to worry less about the 3rd person camera getting into weird places in chunks of your level geometry, and it's actually easier for people to pick up and just play.
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« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2007, 04:33:14 PM »

Wouldn't developing Mario's world more also make it lose some of its simplistic, gameplay-oriented charm?

I think MG looks a bit too simple actually, but I've only seen the trailers. If you look what's going on from a purely semantic perspective (verbs) MG actually seems less complex than SMB 1. Roam playfield, transfer between playfields, pick up stuff, break some stuff and pick up bacon, and some other stuff. While MG has the X,Z playfield, it's Y axis is not used much as it would obscure the LoS to Mario. Basically you get the gravity-less slide move 'verb' in another dimension to allow sidestepping etc, but I think the Jumping mechanic suffers quite a bit.

 In SMB1 jumping (and ducking) enables a lot of interesting other 'verbs', many of which (I think) are more interesting (and characteristic to Mario) than the ability to sidestep. Also, I like to smash blocks. It makes me feel like I have the Power to make a tangible change, while also being creative in my destruction since I can make patterns as I smash blocks. MG seems to be mostly about sliding a dot around to collect things which give off a satisfying sound as feedback.

It's interesting what defines a game though. I know I rant a bit about gameplay, but I think I actually favor the setting when it comes to the importance of being being faithful. Maybe it's because I'm an art guy, it pains me more to see a character design mistreated. I just want the gameplay to be fun and I wouldn't mind to see a Star Control sequel which doesn't revolve around the SpaceWar mechanic at all.
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« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2007, 05:00:25 PM »

What the hell happened to this thread...?
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olücæbelel
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« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2007, 12:26:11 AM »

Hao> Complete reversal!
Yeah. I'm confused about Mario 64 now. Maybe I just don't like the level design? But I do have problems with some of the trickier platforming bits because of the controls - not because of not being able to perform the moves, but because I can't see what I'm doing and my thumb can't map what I'm seeing to physical movement of the stick. So, maybe it can't be learned, in a perfect sense. But game design could certainly help.

It's as though the tricker jumps from 2D don't really have an analog in 3D - thin platforms don't work because of camera controls; short ones don't work because of perspective (made worse by variable jump heights).
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« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2007, 11:40:13 PM »

If we stay on the topic of Mario, I'd love to see something like in the intro video taken into gameplay, i.e. a living universe with ecosystems, a dynamic functioning society which can be manipulated. Maybe you play Bowser and get to design all your forces, recruiting Koopa troopas, designing and constructing air ships. It all ends happily when you kidnap the princess. Imagine 10 000 Koopas storming over a hill, just like LotR, then Koopa kicks down Mario into a well screaming "This is ..." ...uh. Maybe not. But I'd love to play a Mario game with a bit more tangible feel of how the world looks and how the interactions of the Mushrooms and Koopa forces works.

That was the most rediculous thing I have ever read.
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« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2007, 12:44:20 AM »

That was the most rediculous thing I have ever read.

Real nice.
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Chris Whitman
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« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2007, 10:40:17 AM »

There's also no 'e' in ridiculous.
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« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2007, 05:58:11 PM »

definately.
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