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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsTOXICANT - rogue-lite survival horror
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« Reply #240 on: December 03, 2019, 10:14:16 AM »

I'll confess that I watched the video itself only briefly--I'm a bit more of a "text and images" person when it comes to dev-updates. ^^;

As to this push being "the one", I hope that you're correct! And I'm glad that your periods away from the project do seem to result in new insights when you return. ^_^
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« Reply #241 on: December 04, 2019, 04:09:33 AM »

I'll confess that I watched the video itself only briefly--I'm a bit more of a "text and images" person when it comes to dev-updates. ^^;

Well, nevertheless, thanks for watching it briefly! Wink

Lately I've been experimenting with different unwrapping and texturing workflows. I'm thinking the main rooms deserve nice big custom textures vs. the current repeated textures. Here's one with separate 4K hand-stamped textures for floors and walls:



I'm thinking a few of these should be enough to cover most of the rooms, perhaps with some "modular" type variations that can be sampled for different corner/hallway/etc. details.

I've also been doing some cleanup of existing models, such as a new unwrap of this along with a custom texture:
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/suppport-beams-8c10bb9257e34ab69d5125fe2286c45f

I think I'll explore some "texel density" tools for Blender soon, though, as I'm pretty anal about consistency. Several of the islands in the above are approximated and though it may not be obvious, it still bugs me knowing that Grin

As mentioned in the video, I'm still fairly new to Blender, but I'm learning a lot and really enjoying the UI changes in 2.8! I'm also starting to get a really good workflow down for doing initial greyboxing in ProBuilder, then bringing it into Blender for some cleanup/detailing.
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« Reply #242 on: December 04, 2019, 09:18:31 AM »

All of that looks pretty good, I do think! ^_^

I'll admit that I've steered clear of using textures quite so big! But if it works out, then fair enough!

Something that I've found useful in Blender is UV-projection: this allows one to UV-map simple structures (like buildings) without hand-unwrapping them all. In my case, it's also proven useful in matching the UV-mappings of objects layered on each other--think of a decal on a wall that should share that wall's normal-map.

(I don't know whether it's present in 2.8; in 2.7 it's a modifier, accessible from the "Properties" editor.)
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« Reply #243 on: December 06, 2019, 08:30:51 AM »

All of that looks pretty good, I do think! ^_^

I'll admit that I've steered clear of using textures quite so big! But if it works out, then fair enough!

Thanks! The irony is that I'm going for a retro aesthetic, though not really for performance or hardware reasons, so I'm not too worried about having the occasional 4K texture. We'll see though, I'll probably end up using some combination of larger hand-stamped/painted textures, and smaller repeated textures with splat maps and decals.

Something that I've found useful in Blender is UV-projection: this allows one to UV-map simple structures (like buildings) without hand-unwrapping them all. In my case, it's also proven useful in matching the UV-mappings of objects layered on each other--think of a decal on a wall that should share that wall's normal-map.

(I don't know whether it's present in 2.8; in 2.7 it's a modifier, accessible from the "Properties" editor.)

Yup, I've come across that in my travels and it's still there in 2.8. I'll keep an eye out for opportunities to use it. I suspect I will also get some benefit from making greater use of "pinning", as well as some of the handy tools like "average island scale".

In other news, I've been experimenting with visualizing arc trajectories (for the beacon launcher). I think it's going to be a really good addition, not only from a visual/marketing perspective, but also game play. It will allow for much more precise placement of beacons, where currently it's hard to really predict where they'll land. In conjunction with some more "vertical" rooms, it should open up some interesting new possibilities. (I'm hoping to grab some video/GIFs of this over the weekend.)
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« Reply #244 on: December 06, 2019, 09:11:58 AM »

Thanks! The irony is that I'm going for a retro aesthetic, though not really for performance or hardware reasons, so I'm not too worried about having the occasional 4K texture. We'll see though, I'll probably end up using some combination of larger hand-stamped/painted textures, and smaller repeated textures with splat maps and decals.

Interesting! Well, go with what works for your specific project, after all! ^_^

I suspect I will also get some benefit from making greater use of "pinning", as well as some of the handy tools like "average island scale".

Ah, I'm not familiar with those (although I think that I've seen "pinning" in the menus); I might look into them to see whether they're useful in my own workflow! ^_^

In other news, I've been experimenting with visualizing arc trajectories (for the beacon launcher). ...

That does sound like a good addition, indeed. ^_^

I'll admit that, personally, I've long been a fan of Thief(i.e. The Dark Project)-style "no guides; learn to get a feel for the mechanics" approaches--but I suspect that such an approach might not be well-suited to your game. For one thing, the roguelike nature of it might make an additional learning curve feel a little unfair!
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« Reply #245 on: December 06, 2019, 01:25:02 PM »

I'll admit that, personally, I've long been a fan of Thief(i.e. The Dark Project)-style "no guides; learn to get a feel for the mechanics" approaches--but I suspect that such an approach might not be well-suited to your game. For one thing, the roguelike nature of it might make an additional learning curve feel a little unfair!

Generally I'm of the same mindset as well and I do plan to have lots of "figure it out for yourself" stuff, but beacons are quite limited in the current design and I don't want the player to feel gypped. As well, I'm going for an element of "technological tools", and I think something like this fits that motif quite well.

Here's how the arc trajectory visualization prototype is currently looking. The visualization is done with a particle system. Originally, I was using a line renderer + maths, but the results were kind of wonky, and I wanted animation anyway. The particle system seems to fit the bill quite nicely, and no math required Wink



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« Reply #246 on: December 07, 2019, 09:15:23 AM »

Hmm... I do worry that the degree of motion shown there might be a little distracting. It does a good job of showing how the projectile will move--but it seems to me that how the projectile will move isn't likely the information of greatest importance, but rather what path it will take, and where it will land.

Generally I'm of the same mindset as well and I do plan to have lots of "figure it out for yourself" stuff, but beacons are quite limited in the current design and I don't want the player to feel gypped. As well, I'm going for an element of "technological tools", and I think something like this fits that motif quite well.

That all makes sense, I do think. ^_^
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« Reply #247 on: December 07, 2019, 10:39:45 AM »

Hmm... I do worry that the degree of motion shown there might be a little distracting. It does a good job of showing how the projectile will move--but it seems to me that how the projectile will move isn't likely the information of greatest importance, but rather what path it will take, and where it will land.

Aye, I will most likely end up projecting a decal at the point of anticipated impacted, and scale the particles back a bit. (though, potential lack of practicality aside, I do like the extra visual flare they add)
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« Reply #248 on: December 09, 2019, 07:15:26 AM »

K, here's v2, now with omni-directional decal projection at the anticipated point of impact:




As you can see in the video, there a couple quirks with the decal projection on sharp edges, but otherwise I think it's looking pretty good, and also quite usable.

The decal projection is not my own, so I may only be able to do so much about the quirks, but part of the issue may be that I'm projecting a bit too close to the surface.
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« Reply #249 on: December 09, 2019, 01:26:13 PM »

Yeah, that looks much better, to my eye! I'm still not a huge fan of the movement in the trajectory projection (which may be just me, of course), but the impact decal and the changes to the projection both make the whole thing a lot more readable, I feel.

Would it be worth increasing the thickness of the circle in the impact decal, to improve readability on surfaces seen close to edge-on (e.g. around 0:19 in the video), do you think?
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« Reply #250 on: December 09, 2019, 01:32:33 PM »

Yeah, that looks much better, to my eye! I'm still not a huge fan of the movement in the trajectory projection (which may be just me, of course), but the impact decal and the changes to the projection both make the whole thing a lot more readable, I feel.

Any suggestions? I would like to have some sort of animation for the path, but I'm not too fussy about what.

Would it be worth increasing the thickness of the circle in the impact decal, to improve readability on surfaces seen close to edge-on (e.g. around 0:19 in the video), do you think?

I did have a thicker line at one point but it stuck out a bit oddly to me. I could look at using a thicker version for specific situations though, i.e. depending on impact normal and/or distance.
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« Reply #251 on: December 10, 2019, 03:57:03 AM »

A little bit more in-depth behind-the-scenes stuff on the trajectory visualization from last night's stream:




(ignore the thumbnail, caught the tail end of a segment on SRR, heh)
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« Reply #252 on: December 10, 2019, 09:21:11 AM »

Any suggestions? I would like to have some sort of animation for the path, but I'm not too fussy about what.

Myself, I think that I'd likely prefer a solid (albeit translucent), curving ribbon, with animation on its surface.

I did have a thicker line at one point but it stuck out a bit oddly to me. I could look at using a thicker version for specific situations though, i.e. depending on impact normal and/or distance.

Ah, fair enough. Such edge-on impact-sites are probably not worth worrying overmuch about, I think; if a simple solution didn't work, I doubt that it's worth investing in something more complex!
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« Reply #253 on: December 11, 2019, 08:54:45 AM »

Any suggestions? I would like to have some sort of animation for the path, but I'm not too fussy about what.

Myself, I think that I'd likely prefer a solid (albeit translucent), curving ribbon, with animation on its surface.

I'll give that a go. Do you have any specific references in mind?

I'll probably need to go back to using a line renderer for the solid part, but that's fine since I'm already doing the calculations. It will also give me an excuse to check out the line renderer's "BakeMesh" function.
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« Reply #254 on: December 11, 2019, 09:26:29 AM »

I'll give that a go. ...

Fair enough! And it sounds like you have somewhat of a start on elements of it, at least. ^_^

Do you have any specific references in mind?

Not offhand, I fear. As I said, I've generally preferred games that don't provide this sort of UI, myself. I just have a general impression of having seen something like this before. Specifically, I have an image of a trajectory-ribbon in blue, I think, with chevrons animating along its length.

That said, I think that the sort of "ribbon projection" that I was describing has been fairly common in recent years, so it shouldn't be too hard to find a reference. (Although I'll admit that some quick Google image-searching didn't turn up anything--but then again, my Google-search skills have historically not been the best. ^^; )
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« Reply #255 on: December 14, 2019, 09:51:34 AM »

I'll probably need to go back to using a line renderer for the solid part, but that's fine since I'm already doing the calculations. It will also give me an excuse to check out the line renderer's "BakeMesh" function.

Well, no go on that. Baking the mesh just results in a totally flat mesh, so I'm not really any further ahead than just using the line renderer directly. I was hoping for something with a bit of "volume" (i.e. like an elongated cube), so I may need to roll my own.

In the meantime, I've been working on my second iteration of "climbing" (sloped instead of vertical surfaces), as well as adding "sliding" for non-climbable slopes. It still has a few edge cases/quirks, but I made some pretty solid progress on today's stream:


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« Reply #256 on: December 15, 2019, 01:48:48 PM »

First successful generation of a multi-level scene! Hand Thumbs Up Left Hand Thumbs Up Right



I've basically kept it super simple--I'm just running everything twice (procedural generation, nav mesh generation, etc.). I had to make some tweaks to the generation to support this (only spawning one player, and getting rid of a hard-coded Y position), but otherwise, it pretty much just worked!

I've made a crude exit room with a sloped platform just for testing. I'll need to add some coordination between the various instances of the procedural generation component to properly connect the rooms vertically, and I'll also need to do some work on the culling and water to support multiple floors.



Next steps from there:
  • integrate the new climbing and sliding mechanics, including some way to "activate" the climbable ramps
  • experiment with different level sizes
  • find and fix potential performance bottle-necks in larger scene
  • integrate the beacon arc trajectory visualization

Really happy with the progress so far though--I can definitely feel the potential in this!
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« Reply #257 on: December 16, 2019, 09:10:56 AM »

I only took a quick look at the video, but based on what I saw that slope -climbing and -sliding looks pretty good thus far! And indeed, those mechanics seem like a pretty appropriate addition to the mechanics of this game. ^_^

And I'm really glad that the multi-level generation for the most part "just worked"! It's generally quite lovely when that happens, I feel. ^_^
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« Reply #258 on: December 16, 2019, 10:22:28 AM »

And I'm really glad that the multi-level generation for the most part "just worked"! It's generally quite lovely when that happens, I feel. ^_^

It is lovely though I think in my excitement I under-estimated how much work is actually left Cheesy Because in addition to connecting the floors, adjusting the culling, and water, there's also stuff like the mini-map, the "generation variant" states (i.e. to avoid generating two similar levels), and probably other things I'm not thinking of. So probably still at least a few days of work, there, but yeah, there is light at the end of the proverbial tunnel so I'm still excited!
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« Reply #259 on: December 17, 2019, 09:15:10 AM »

Heh, it does sometimes seem that there's almost always unforeseen or overlooked work in the implementation of any given feature! ^^;
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