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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignHow to mix types of skills (?)
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LOUD
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« on: October 24, 2016, 01:37:27 AM »

I am working on a turn based puzle tactics game called Pharmakon.

Currently, i am balancing 5 skills that i designed and i am facing a huge question about them :
Is it possible to mix these skills according to these criterias :
A: all skills have to be equally useful than the others
B: all skills have to require the same amount of investment to be used
C : all skills have to be coherent

Well, that being said, i invite you to watch this vidéo showing how the game is working : https://www.twitch.tv/xxloudxx/v/96865081

My problem is that, when i am playing, i use mostly a unique skill (the stunning skill as shown in the video).
So i am wondering if :
- my skills can work together ?
- my skills should affect the same kind of charactéristic ? Or on the contrary, affect only different aspects ?
(for example stunning and pushing don't do more damages instead of other skills)
- is, making the too much used skill more difficult to get is a good solution ?
- is, making other unused skills stronger a good solution ?


Also, i am wondering if it is only the way i play that leads me to use primarily one skill.
Just to be clear, i use anothers skills, but only 20% of the time because i see clearly how to win by using only one.

Anyway, how do you deal with these aspects, and what do you recommend in my case ?

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valrus
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2016, 08:19:43 PM »

The player gravitating towards doing the same thing again and again isn't necessarily bad, if that thing is fun and doesn't break the game.  It might be that you've just found that stunning is your local maximum of fun, and making it so stunning is more costly or less effective might make things less fun.  Would the game still work if "stun" was the default action?  (I don't know what your default action is -- attack? -- but you could try switching it around so that stunning is the default and attacking is always special.)  Having something be the default can switch the perception of it being overused at the expense of other things.

I don't think it's desirable for skills to be equally useful and equally costly, just that the power/cost curves are reasonable, and that there's some point in the game where there are challenges that regularly exercise that skill.  (So at the point where the player has mastered the "just use stun" gameplay, they're venturing off into a new area where just relying on stun won't win the battle anymore and they have to add new strategies to their play repertoire.)

It looks like you already have a complex elemental system of immunities, though, and adding addition immunities (like immunity to stun) might be information overload.  (Could the skills simply piggyback on elements, so that lightning stuns, ice causes beasts to slide further, etc.?)  Maybe stunning is implemented as a sonic blast that stuns the target but wakes any nearby sleeping beasts -- and that's not a problem in the early game, but as the game goes on you come across bigger herds of mostly-sleeping beasts and have to be careful not to wake too many of them up.
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LOUD
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2016, 02:10:15 AM »

The player gravitating towards doing the same thing again and again isn't necessarily bad, if that thing is fun and doesn't break the game.  It might be that you've just found that stunning is your local maximum of fun, and making it so stunning is more costly or less effective might make things less fun.  Would the game still work if "stun" was the default action?  (I don't know what your default action is -- attack? -- but you could try switching it around so that stunning is the default and attacking is always special.)  Having something be the default can switch the perception of it being overused at the expense of other things.
Mmmh it is an interesting vision. I am not sure the stun skill is a fun, what i feel when i use it, is more like a tiny break in the fight.
The default action si the attack and the attack is also the only way to make enemies react and launch next turn.
Setting the stun as default would have no sense in the game. It will eradicate a big part of the game strategy because you will be able to never take counter-attacks.

I don't think it's desirable for skills to be equally useful and equally costly, just that the power/cost curves are reasonable, and that there's some point in the game where there are challenges that regularly exercise that skill.  (So at the point where the player has mastered the "just use stun" gameplay, they're venturing off into a new area where just relying on stun won't win the battle anymore and they have to add new strategies to their play repertoire.)
I understand that, nevertheless it is more difficult with a procedural game like mine to make specific part of the game requiring to use these skills. And the risk of progression's irregularity can increase. Also, my goal with this game is to give to the player tools to face threats with mutiple approches, not any approaches but several.

It looks like you already have a complex elemental system of immunities, though, and adding addition immunities (like immunity to stun) might be information overload.  (Could the skills simply piggyback on elements, so that lightning stuns, ice causes beasts to slide further, etc.?)  Maybe stunning is implemented as a sonic blast that stuns the target but wakes any nearby sleeping beasts -- and that's not a problem in the early game, but as the game goes on you come across bigger herds of mostly-sleeping beasts and have to be careful not to wake too many of them up.
I thought a lot of time about what you said here, but i couldn't be able to find interesting passive skills that were equally useful or even coherent between each others. I put a lot of effort on game's harmony/consistency so i do my best to don't have thing that seems to be out of context. And stun, in a way makes me feel like this.
To be clear, in that case, it is like you have to run a marathon, but hen you you meet supporters giving water, one of them gives you a bike allowed on the run. That's what i call "out of context".

Recently i did a chart ith the skills to determine good balancing. For now it is in french, but if i have some time i will translate it to share it here.
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