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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignPossible to use FEZ rotation mechanic without copying FEZ
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Author Topic: Possible to use FEZ rotation mechanic without copying FEZ  (Read 2502 times)
stonecompass
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« on: January 12, 2017, 12:21:25 pm »

Hi guys.
So I've been working on this game that started out as a rogue-like and has since evolved into a puzzle-game or at least that's what I plan it to be.

My question is about the main mechanic (rotating the world shifting what can be walked on) in FEZ since that is a mechanic that I have implemented in my game.
I really am feeling like I'm copying the game instead of using the mechanic to do something different.

So do you guys think that this mechanic is so much a signature FEZ mechanic that everyone will think that it's just a FEZ clone, when seeing a game doing something similar?

I tried implementing vertical rotations, but it still feels too much like FEZ.

I haven't seen any games using this mechanic either, so maybe I should explore other ideas instead  Gomez


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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 12:30:15 pm »

try making a small prototype with the mechanics and also a visual. Try sharing it with people and see if they react the same way as it once happened in this devlog:

https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=52531.0

it think it was criticized because the tiles were too similar to Fez.
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stonecompass
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 12:34:22 pm »

try making a small prototype with the mechanics and also a visual. Try sharing it with people and see if they react the same way as it once happened in this devlog:

https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=52531.0

it think it was criticized because the tiles were too similar to Fez.

Wow, thanks! Didn't know of that game, but it might be a good example of what I'm afraid of could happen.
I'm close to having a prototype with a puzzle, so I'll post it in here when it's ready. :-)
Thanks for the quick response!
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msilver
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 03:31:59 pm »

There is a limit to how original a game needs to be and being original isn't necessarily the path to success. Fez doesn't own a rotating world and if you are really excited about that concept go for it. Now if you are using the same tiles and levels and everything from fez as b∀ kkusa suggests then you are just making a clone which is only helpful to practice the craft of game making.

Also if you think it is too much like fez now throw in some twists that differentiate it. Add some interesting weapons, add bad guys, come up with new puzzles that aren't in fez, make it look dramatically different from fez etc.
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Endurion
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 11:13:48 pm »

I once made a game just to see how the mechanics of Fez worked out (that was before Fez for PC was anounced), and I didn't have any troubles. And it's a rather blatant copy of the game mechanic, but without the looks:

http://indiegames.com/2010/10/freeware_game_pick_babel_endur.html


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stonecompass
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2017, 07:47:52 am »

There is a limit to how original a game needs to be and being original isn't necessarily the path to success. Fez doesn't own a rotating world and if you are really excited about that concept go for it. Now if you are using the same tiles and levels and everything from fez as b∀ kkusa suggests then you are just making a clone which is only helpful to practice the craft of game making.

Also if you think it is too much like fez now throw in some twists that differentiate it. Add some interesting weapons, add bad guys, come up with new puzzles that aren't in fez, make it look dramatically different from fez etc.

Thank you so much for your input!
At the moment it might look a bit like FEZ, but I'm in the process of making it look very different.
I'm also doing the rotation part a bit different in that I'm not making all visible voxels collidable. Instead I'm trying to make layered look instead which seems to work okay if you build the levela having that in mind.
I will post it in here soon to get some  feedback!
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stonecompass
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2017, 07:51:51 am »

I once made a game just to see how the mechanics of Fez worked out (that was before Fez for PC was anounced), and I didn't have any troubles. And it's a rather blatant copy of the game mechanic, but without the looks:

http://indiegames.com/2010/10/freeware_game_pick_babel_endur.html



Nice! Looks cool :-) Well then I might be okay  Tongue
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Polly
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2017, 08:37:32 am »

So do you guys think that this mechanic is so much a signature FEZ mechanic that everyone will think that it's just a FEZ clone, when seeing a game doing something similar?

Depends on ( the rest of ) the game. If for instance Snakebird would have used the "FEZ rotation mechanic", they probably would have gotten some ( snarky ) comments .. but it would have still been a completely different game from FEZ.



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stonecompass
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2017, 09:49:27 am »

So do you guys think that this mechanic is so much a signature FEZ mechanic that everyone will think that it's just a FEZ clone, when seeing a game doing something similar?

Depends on ( the rest of ) the game. If for instance Snakebird would have used the "FEZ rotation mechanic", they probably would have gotten some ( snarky ) comments .. but it would have still been a completely different game from FEZ.





That's a good point! I just really like the idea of using the rotation mechanic, but I'm not trying to copy the game on other aspects.
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andyfromiowa
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2017, 11:55:02 am »

I would recommend stating your inspiration up front.  Be transparent and say you're building on Fez's mechanics and adding new gameplay ideas on top of them.  Personally, I think roguelike elements or combat would be interesting to see.

Your prototypes will be key.  You should be able to see fairly quickly if you're making something new or if it's just a clone.  And if it is a clone, change it up!  Don't let comments on the internet stop you from making something - especially before you even start.
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VampireSquid
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2017, 01:29:09 pm »

I don't think fez owns that mechanic.  There could be some benefits to being compared to fez so there's that. 

Quote
I haven't seen any games using this mechanic either, so maybe I should explore other ideas instead

This in particular makes me think it might be a good idea!  Just make sure the visual style and the rest of the game play are unique.
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Shambrook
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2017, 09:25:06 pm »

I mean Fez wasn't even the first game to use that mechanic anyway. Crush came out for PSP in 2007 and uses a really similar mechanic.


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TitoOliveira
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 09:41:12 am »

Imho it's very hard to do that without drawing the reference. But that's not necessarily bad.
It might even be a marketing tool for you. You can pitch your game as "Imagine FEZ, but roguelike", or something like that. It might backlash on you if you happen to make a game with the exact same things as FEZ, then people will notice. But if your game have different elements combined to make a unique experience, the references can be a promotion tool.
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Prinsessa
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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2017, 04:09:17 am »

I don't think it's as unique to Fez as it might seem, and a lot of good examples have been posted here. As long as your game has its own personality and isn't an exact copy of Fez (for example, the game Bakkusa linked, while it didn't copy Fez's exact mechanics, it was clearly inspired by them, and when it originally had graphics that were obviously Fez, that was a bit too much—but since the mechanics were indeed somewhat different, once the graphics were replaced with something original, it fully took on a personality of its own, and definitely cannot be considered a ripoff). c:

Here's an interesting somewhat similar mechanic I saw the other day:
https://twitter.com/Nitrome/status/832597637308231683

And even I am considering using a "2D mechanics in 3D space" kind of thing:
https://twitter.com/avaskoog/status/824748016334675969

Yet none of these, nor the other examples posted, are exactly Fez, which is perfectly fine. Art and media are generally variations on previous ideas and rarely completely original anyway! Why let a good idea die and never be used again just because someone else used it first, especially if you can add a twist to it? c:
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mysteriosum
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2017, 08:20:19 pm »

Many people have said, "Good artists borrow; great artists steal."

The way I interpret this is if you steal it you make it your own. Then it doesn't matter where it came from.

You are the sum of your experiences, so anything you make is necessarily original. And if it resonates with you, it will resonate truly with others as well.

Keep it up!
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2017, 09:39:12 pm »

this game is a fez clone that was actually released *before* fez was (cloned it while fez was in production). always thought it was an underrated game in some ways









i recorded these two vids 5 years apart, the second one has much better video quality. but it really is a continuation of the first one, it just took me that long to get around to finishing recording the second half of my playthrough
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Endurion
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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2017, 10:51:05 am »

Glad at least someone remembers it Smiley

It's not a long or full game by far, it was rather a test to see if I could accomplish the technique. A editor is hidden inside (press E in the title), but it's not that comfortable.
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ferreiradaselva
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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2017, 02:49:45 pm »

I was about to mention Babel.

Really doesn't matter if you make a game with same  mechanics. Make your game. Don't care about anyone judging for being a FEZ "clone". How many metroidvanias are around? They are even "metroid---vania", they use the game mechanics of TWO games! Is it wrong? No. They are still cool. Make your cool game.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2017, 03:42:09 pm »

the rule here is: if there are less than 10 games that use a mechanic, any game that uses it is a 'clone'. if there are 100s of games that use that mechanic, it's a 'genre'. remember that FPS games were at one point called doom clones (shortly after doom came out).
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liranjulia
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« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2017, 09:04:59 am »

Add your own unique mechanics- I think the vast majority of games have the same mechanics of at least a couple more.... I mean think side scrollers. They are all clones of Mario right? Try and think of something unique that you can add so that you differ a bit from the rest...
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