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[Photon]

More specifically, I'm talking about games with large-quantity pickups (ex: coins in Mario.) I feel like its something I don't see a lot of anymore simply because their purposes (extra lives, score, etc.) have become more and more irrelevant. But I've been playing some (retro) games lately that have me thinking about how they've been effectively used before. I'd like to know what you guys think: which games, old or new, got the pickup collection stuff right without feeling like completely tacked-on baggage? I'd definitely be interested in hearing about more recent examples.

I'll give a couple that come to mind for me:

Yoshi's Island (SNES): Specifically, the red coins. I never really realized it much before, but hiding the red coins among the normal coins makes coin collection feel more exciting. Its true that it can feel tedious at times, but normally the game is pretty good about not hiding them in the more bonus-y groups of 100+ coins.

Donkey Kong Country (SNES): Bananas are to Donkey Kong what coins are to Mario, but banana placement could sometimes clue you in to where the "big" prizes were hiding (Bonus Tokens, DK Coins, etc.) One of the most memorable examples of this was a level where a DK Coin was hidden behind pass-thru but lethal-looking wall; however, a single banana casually sitting inside the wall was the sole clue to indicate that the wall was, in fact, fake.
   
Other than that, bananas have about the same importance of coins in Mario (which is to say not much,) but I'd get a kick out of finding the cleverly hidden stashes here and there throughout levels. They were the kind of thing I enjoyed finding not because the game mandated I find them but because it didn't, therefore finding stuff like that was more unexpected. It made poking around legitimately more fun because without a completion percent shouting in your face, you couldn't be quite sure if you'd found absolutely everything.

Commander Keen (MS-DOS): I reckon some people might disagree with me on this one. I may be giving way more credit than what is due here, but whatever...
   
I was just recently playing this oldie but my gamer-OCD was getting the better of me with the pickups because they are all over the place. Its probably one of the things that has kept me from reliving the enjoyment I had with it years ago. But then I realized that the pickups are even less important than other arcade platformers of the time. There are no checkpoints in Keen, and you can literally save at any time on the world map (and restore your previous life count.) So why get powerups? Well, because you can.
   
Commander Keen has some incredible non-linear level design. When I would see pickups through walls or floors or even being guarded by an enemy, it was like a challenge. How do I get there? Do I risk death for that? Ultimately, there was really no other incentive than whether or not you were gutsy enough to take it on. And again, much like DKC above, it provided incentive to search every nook and cranny. And if you didn't want to take the chance? Just pass on it, you aren't losing out on anything of majorly important value. The pickups were not mandatory but provided just enough meaning to spur on the explorer in me.

[quantumpotato]

I'm stuck on the Challenges for Game Designers challenge on "make a game about picking things up".

I think Halo did well here where you had to juggle 2 weapon slots. Most "auto coin pickups" I find distasteful.

[DireLogomachist]

I think one of the best ways is to make them spendable in some way. Either on cosmetics, upgrades or additional weapons/mechanics.

I think a lot free-to-play games do that now with great success. Give the players something to earn towards, give more incentives.

[Photon]

Most "auto coin pickups" I find distasteful.

For what specific reasons though?

I think one of the best ways is to make them spendable in some way. Either on cosmetics, upgrades or additional weapons/mechanics.

I think a lot free-to-play games do that now with great success. Give the players something to earn towards, give more incentives.

That's true. Mobile games have been doing that for awhile and, depending on the model, it can work rather well. I've been playing this one mobile game lately that is chock full of different unlockable characters and themes that just ooze personality. Its been a big motivator to keep playing and unlocking stuff, even if its strictly cosmetic.

But now that got me thinking about it in comparison to my examples above. Its interesting how different collectables funnel into their respective gameplay loops in different ways.

[Torchkas]

I think that in Mario collectibles have become much less meaningful over time, because lives have become less valuable. The reason those old games felt like they had meaningful collectibles that didn't actually add to any score was because they gave you lives which would end up giving you more time between game overs, or even avoiding them.

These days though platformers are really dumbed down. Now I haven't played a lot of the newer Donkey Kong games, and I heard they were really good, but from what I did play of them the non-score collectibles didn't feel meaningful at all. I'd have to play it longer to really tell you why, though the reason might be that they were actually too plentiful and didn't feel scarce or necessary to go out of your way to get them.

Modern Mario I have played a lot of and I'll tell you that coins really don't matter at all. The sound effects and flashy visual effects make them somewhat satisfying, but mechanically they are not.

[Photon]

These days though platformers are really dumbed down. Now I haven't played a lot of the newer Donkey Kong games, and I heard they were really good, but from what I did play of them the non-score collectibles didn't feel meaningful at all. I'd have to play it longer to really tell you why, though the reason might be that they were actually too plentiful and didn't feel scarce or necessary to go out of your way to get them.

I played some of the DKC Returns series but never really latched onto it save for the co-op aspect (because my little sister enjoyed that sort of thing with me.) Believe me when I say I wanted to like those games, but as far as comparing them to the originals I didn't get the hype.

Actually, the hidden stuff and collectibles were one of the reasons I didn't like it. I felt like collectible placement in the original games was far more meaningful, even if the collectables themselves weren't particularly important. In DKC Returns, it felt like they just threw stuff in every little corner. In particular, the "important" puzzle piece collectables were laughably hidden. Crossing a bridge? Let's put a collectible under it. High ceilings? Put a collectible somewhere up high. It became so predictable that it diminished the value of finding stuff to me. I feel like the originals had just a little more discretion, or at least made it so going out of your way wasn't trivially easy.

Oh, and the hidden bonus stages were terrible and dull.

[Capntastic]

Hey girl, those must be rings you're collecting 'cause coins don't protect me from badniks and spikes

[Schoq]

they additionally don't pop out of my body on injury as clearly way more sprites than the system can handle, slowing the game down to 5 fps

[beetleking22]

I think that in Mario collectibles have become much less meaningful over time, because lives have become less valuable. The reason those old games felt like they had meaningful collectibles that didn't actually add to any score was because they gave you lives which would end up giving you more time between game overs, or even avoiding them.

These days though platformers are really dumbed down. Now I haven't played a lot of the newer Donkey Kong games, and I heard they were really good, but from what I did play of them the non-score collectibles didn't feel meaningful at all. I'd have to play it longer to really tell you why, though the reason might be that they were actually too plentiful and didn't feel scarce or necessary to go out of your way to get them.

Modern Mario I have played a lot of and I'll tell you that coins really don't matter at all. The sound effects and flashy visual effects make them somewhat satisfying, but mechanically they are not.

Puzzle pieces reward are still pretty meh but  In Tropical freeze they improved kong letter reward by unlocking hidden path that lead to  hidden stages if you collect all of the 4 letters.

[raigan]

In N++ we use gold ("coins" a-la Mario) as a sort of fluid opt-in difficulty: you can ignore them and just beat the level, which is easy mode. Or, you can try to get all the gold and beat the level, which is hard mode. (There are even harder goals beyond that in the late game)

It's a design I hope more games use -- from a player's POV I really like that I don't have to select anything up front, I can try to get all the gold and if it seems too hard I can bail whenever I want.

[quantumpotato]

In N++ we use gold ("coins" a-la Mario) as a sort of fluid opt-in difficulty: you can ignore them and just beat the level, which is easy mode. Or, you can try to get all the gold and beat the level, which is hard mode. (There are even harder goals beyond that in the late game)

I'm glad you mentioned this. I liked the coins in N++. Some levels I would try to get more of them. I liked that they give a time bonus too (which IIRC is how you score the game but it's also your life)

It's a design I hope more games use -- from a player's POV I really like that I don't have to select anything up front, I can try to get all the gold and if it seems too hard I can bail whenever I want.