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[thefoolishbrave]

Hi! So I'm basically trying to put some deep thought into my preferable options for my indie I've spent nearly 2 years putting together. Would really appreciate anyone who has had a successful publishing deal give input. Quick synopsis:

My game is getting to its highly polished demo stage and i'm planning to send it out to some people. From there I can realistically scout for a publisher, start a kickstarter to attempt to expedite, or do it myself using my own limited resources over a longer period of time. All the art and design was done by me and coding is being done by someone I discovered on TIG.

Indie Publisher: I know there are some indie publishers that are good at what they do and have been good at getting indies proper exposure. I know how much reach and a brand can make or break even the most promising products. So this is a plus, I also like having a secure funding partner, however what do publisher cuts usually look like? And if my game goes on steam do they factor that or is their cut separate?

For Kickstarter: I feel like this is a good way to build hype and get exposure for your games, I know people do a lot of let's plays and even some streamers will check out Kickstarter games, you do have a huge obligation to your backers, and I've seen a lot of people fall short or delay their release dates, this game has taken me a lot longer to put together than I expected, if I think there's something that can be made better I delay my own satisfaction of completion and backtrack to make it happen. Although I do not work on this game like it's an 8 hour job, if it was funded, I probably would crunch more.

Doing it myself: I'm doing all the art and design, I don't think it would be too hard to find someone to work on the game at a reasonable rate, it'd take longer, I wouldn't get the same exposure or funding but all profits would be mine.


So I'm about 2 weeks out from finishing the demo so I really want to try and get a grasp on what my game plan is going to be going forward, any input would be much appreciated!

[ViktorTheBoar]

I can tell you our story when we made Viktor. We failed two crowdfunding attempts and couldn't get any "good" publishers (we could get black shell media, but everyone can do that), so we did everything by ourselves. The result was mediocre, but I doubt that a small publisher would help enough

[Squire Grooktook]

If it's your first commercial game I wouldn't recommend the pressure of a Kickstarter unless you set the funding goal low and keep rewards minimal.

This is something I've been thinking about recently.

I was wondering if it might be a viable plan to finish my game, and then run an extremely low crowdfunding/kickstarter campaign, in order to afford a few more pixel art and sound asset commissions. I'm thinking, maybe the campaign would have a goal of $200-$500?

I'm curious if there'd be any chance of success. Kickstarter has succumbed to a great deal of backlash these days, and as one niche project out of many, I fear that asking for mere pocket change might be too much.

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

i doubt i'd find the link, but there was once a kickstarter for game(a pixel art platformer) that only asked for ~100$ , the game was already finished by this point and they kind of did that for exposure. If i ain't wrong they kind of managed to get + 7k bucks.

[freank]

Indie Publisher: I know there are some indie publishers that are good at what they do and have been good at getting indies proper exposure. I know how much reach and a brand can make or break even the most promising products. So this is a plus, I also like having a secure funding partner, however what do publisher cuts usually look like? And if my game goes on steam do they factor that or is their cut separate?

for example..?

[melos]

If it's your first commercial game I wouldn't recommend the pressure of a Kickstarter unless you set the funding goal low and keep rewards minimal.

This is something I've been thinking about recently.

I was wondering if it might be a viable plan to finish my game, and then run an extremely low crowdfunding/kickstarter campaign, in order to afford a few more pixel art and sound asset commissions. I'm thinking, maybe the campaign would have a goal of $200-$500?

I'm curious if there'd be any chance of success. Kickstarter has succumbed to a great deal of backlash these days, and as one niche project out of many, I fear that asking for mere pocket change might be too much.

This seems like the best way to do a Kickstarter - low goal in order to add a little polish to your game, and you'll advertise it via Kickstarter. You're not under much pressure to succeed, and if you successfully pull it off that helps with future Kickstarters or games.

[LobsterSundew]

A $200 goal could need as little as 3 to 6 to 8 backers to reach 100%. A $500 goal could need 16 to 20 to 23 backers to reach 100%. That is with a game priced $10 to $15. Lower priced games see lower average pledge per backer amounts and thus need more backers total. It takes 3 backers at a $5 tier to cover as much funding distance as 1 backer at a $15 tier. $200 to $500 is small enough for a single backer to cover because $10,000 is the maximum allowed pledge size per backer.

Micro projects often suffer from being dumped onto the platform with almost no marketing. Discoverability within Kickstarter is a problem like in Steam and mobile app stores. Kickstarter is a means to generate hype for a game, but a project needs to be visible instead of buried over 100 spots down in the project rankings. Project creators need to bring enough backers to a recently launched campaign to maintain a good ranking in the project discovery area. It generally takes at least 10 to 50 backers on the first day. Many project creators fail to do enough marketing to reach 10 to 50 backers on the first day. From an optimistic perspective, 10 to 50 backers is relatively low number. Many failed campaigns have less than 50 backers for their entire runs.

Below is a list of micro Kickstarter video game campaigns so far for 2017. These were projects that did surpass their minimum funding goals that were at or below $5,000.

Cattails raised $38,311 out of a $3,210 goal.
Super Donuts raised £447 out of £36 goal.
Heartbound raised $19,272 out of a $5,000 goal.
Starlight Blossoms Bloom Brightest raised £18,942 out of a £2,000 goal.
On Earth As It Is In Heaven raised $1,643 out of a $900 goal.
Prelude: Physchologic Horror raised MX $8,605 out of a MX $1,000 goal.
Global Adventures raised $1,816 out of a $800 goal.
Somnnia Sanctorum raised MX $171 out of a MX $80 goal.
Something In The Dark raised $220 out of a $200 goal.
No Mans Land Survival Game raised £206 out of a £150 goal.
Reborn: Will You Survive raised €115 out of a €100 goal.
Septiplier: The Game raised $434 out of a $100 goal.
EX0: Dark Moon raised $385 out of a $300 goal.
Empty Handed raised $310 out of a $200 goal.
Frantic raised €200 out of a €200 goal.
Fate of Decisions raised $265 out of a $250 goal.
Fururust raised £605 out of a £500 goal.
Survive The Dark Ages: Lands of the Vikings raised £92 out of £40 goal.
In The Dark raised $1,045 out of a $500 goal.
The Essence Reaper Ritual raised €435 out of a €250 goal.
The Triggering raised £415 out of a £64 goal.
A Hand In The Darkness raised €2,284 out of a €500 goal.
Faint Dawn raised $254 out of a $250 goal.
The Deep Woods raised $4,780SEK out of a $1,500SEK goal.
Nocked: True Tales of Robin Hood raised $2,112 out of a $1,000 goal.
White Slayer raised $242 CAD out of a $100 CAD goal.
DARCADE raised $543 out of a $500 goal.
The Ramen Prince raised $3,044 out of a $1,500 goal.
Abstract Arena raised €147 out of a €500 goal.
Day: One raised $371 out of a $350 goal.
Medieval Shopkeeper Simulator raised €3,871 out of a €1,000 goal.
Nightmin RPG raised $560 out of a $50 goal.
Life Forge ORPG raised $1,195 out of a $100 goal.
Astoria: The Holders of Power Saga raised £1,524 out of a £1,000 goal.
Aaero: Rhythm Rail Shooter raised £2,620 out of a £2,000 goal.
Gray World raised €421 out of a €408 goal.
The Rainsdown Players: Second Act raised €516 out of a €500 goal.
Guard Duty raised £4,422 out of a £2,000 goal.
Ascend raised $2,041 out of a $2,000 goal.
Sol Ni Koro raised £810 out of a £50 goal.
Alcyone: The Last City raised $8,380 out of a $5,000 goal.
Space N Traders raised £100 out of a £100 goal.
AIdol: Artificial Intelligence Idol raised $2,874 out of a $2,000 goal.
Otter Bash raised $300 out of a $150 goal.
The Contractors has multiple small campaigns like $2,348 out of a $2,000 goal.
Paradox Soul raised £2,069 out of a £2,000 goal.
Sidegunner raised $1,249 out of a $1,200 goal.
A Matter of Time is a currently live campaign with $1,123 AUD out of a $600 AUD goal.
Waveform Wipeout is a currently live campaign with $1,214 out of a $2,100 goal.

Kickstarter has lots of failed projects to cover the $100 Steam Greenlight fee (now Steam Direct fee). Despite tiny goals they still often fail. One problem with asking for low goals is it becomes an ultimatum game. The projects can fail because they are perceived as unfair.

Ultimatum games are psychological experiments about players accepting a division of money between themselves. An example has 2 players and a total amount of $100. The money gets divided by the staff member. Only player #2 can decide if both players keep the money.

Examples:
Player #1 has $50 and player #2 has $50. If player #2 agrees they receive $50 each.
Player #1 has $30 and player #2 has $70. If player #2 refuses both receive nothing.
Player #1 has $70 and player #2 has $30. If player #2 refuses both receive nothing.

If the player #2 acts using cold logic, then accepting any division of the money is the optimum choice because receiving $1 is better than receiving nothing. Real-life experiments had people in the player #2 role refuse around 15% to 20% of the time instead of 0%. Human emotions are a factor. Player #2 could refuse because it was heavily unfair in a situation where player #1 received $99 and player #2 received on #1.

On Kickstarter, potential backers can perceive a project as unfair if all the risk is transferred to backers or a project creator benefits far too much. There is often the feeling of "if the goal is so low, why don't you just save up enough money yourself". Micro Kickstarter projects can work, but it is important to try to maintain a sense of fairness. There needs to be good reasons for self-interested backers to support the project. The projects to cover Greenlight fees were often perceived as lazy. Super large projects also sometimes struggle with being deemed unfair to backers. The reward tiers function as a means to negotiate with backers. Many bad campaigns are just "give us money and get the game" instead of involving backers in the process of making the game.

There were 3 choices in the first post for this thread.

Choice #1 is running a Kickstarter campaign. A well-planned campaign can be worth running even if it fails because it can generate some exposure and offers from publishers. It can be an eye-opening experience.

The main cost is time. It takes time to build up social media followings. It takes time to prepare materials like pitch videos and project update content. A big underestimate is how much time it takes to contact press. There is the research phase before writing starts. At a conservative average of 2 minutes per composing an e-mail, that means 30 e-mails composed in an hour. A project creator can easily spend 8 hours composing e-mails for a launch. That is with only requiring customization upon a template. Spamming the same e-mail message out with bots to a generic list of sites is ineffective. Each e-mail should be tailored, at least towards the sites most likely to cover your game.

There are other costs. Cashing in favors, giveaways, advertising, producing test samples of physical rewards, establishing a bank account/company, sacrificing vacation time, spending to finish a demo, having to drop some contract work and hosting are easy to initially overlook. First impressions also happen only once. Games can also have their feature set locked by promises during a campaign.

Choice #2 is to going with an indie publisher.

Publishers want returns on investments. They want a clear revenue model and a viable target market. Sometimes developers aren't clear on either of those things. Publisher specializing in specific niche may be looking for another game it can add to that niche. Publisher looking to expand into a niche it hasn't tried yet can also be looking for games.

There are some vulture-like companies out there. It is important to look at what previous games were published under a company, the quality of any ports and the quality of public relations. There are also bureaucratic costs when dealing with a publisher. The main cost can be time. There can also be paperwork like more contracts, auditing and complexities like negotiating first-dibs rights on signing your next game. Creative control can also be lost.

It is important to understand the benefits of a publisher beyond funding. They provide a middleman role between you and platform owners. They can provide the benefit of past experience to avoid noob mistakes. They are often sought for help with promoting games. They can have both contacts with press and experience running ads. Some have exhibition booths, trailer showcases and their own cultivated audiences. The mark of some publishers can be seal-of-quality.

Choice 3# is taking longer by doing it yourself. This option remains if Kickstarter campaign fails and unable to find a publisher.

[Schoq]

I just want to thank you for that first paragraph in which you for some reason present very rudimentary math and random numbers in a weird and irrelevant way but with the diction and structure as if you're being helpful

I didn't read the rest but at a glance it looks like you also decided to share your general understanding of game theory and that's nice too

[Squire Grooktook]

Thank you for the excellent and well written post, LobsterSundew.

The issue of "unfairness" is interesting. It makes me wonder if a slightly more ambitious campaign, with a higher goal, would be more likely to succeed.

I will have to study the successful campaigns you listed, in order to learn more.

[ryansumo]

Hi, I wrote a little bit about how we got Positech Games to be our publisher, and about publishers in general here:

http://www.squeakywheel.ph/blog/2016/6/18/how-political-animals-got-a-publisher-part-3

tl:dr

Do the numbers.  If not for your publisher, then at least for yourself, so you know what you're spending.  Making a pitch deck is time consuming and slightly annoying, but helps sharpen your marketing for your game.

Publishing deals will vary depending on publisher, but I would say that its typical for a publisher to ask for 100% of revenue until they break even, then usually a 50/50 split.  Varies depending on publisher and how much funding you require.

[thefoolishbrave]

Thank you all very much for your responses, I am not always on TIG, sometimes when I don't get a response in a few hours or a day, I figure no one cares and I don't check back. But I truly appreciate the effort that went into replying!

I highly suspect I can finish this game eventually no matter what happens, but it sounds like to me, my best bet is to pursue a Kickstarter for mostly exposure purposes and if I get money to finish the game faster and by needing to struggle and scrape less to do it that's a huge bonus.

I'm going to do that as I get closer to wrapping up my demo! Thanks again for all the help and opinions!