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[Cobralad]

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[ProgramGamer]

Paid loot boxes in full price games suck, but imo they're tolerable if they're a substitute for subscriptions in an online game, such as in Overwatch, because it offsets the subscription from those who can't afford it to those who are willing to pay more. Especially in the case where they're just for cosmetic items, like skins and sprays.

No justification for single player games like Shadow of War though, where loot boxes affect gameplay. That's just absurd.

[Schoq]

Paying $60 for any game sounds crazy.

Copyright should be abolished save for moral rights as an author.
Production of immaterial goods like games should reasonably only be paid for during development (when the actual work is being done, which is the point of giving someone money) and thereafter be public domain.
This would lead to patrons (foundations, government grants, crowdfunding campaigns, etc.) deciding about creative control rather than stock holders needing to maximize the chances of return from their investments.
It would also mean anyone is free to iterate on and draw from any work of art without interfering with the monetary interest of previous authors, which would foster innovation and experimentation.
Additionally it should lead to better conditions for workers, as they can be better compensated when investors and executives are rationalized out of the picture (provided people are still willing to spend even half as much money on entertainment as they are currently)

[Superb Joe]

people with addiction to computer games are progressively contributing to these practices because of an inability to not buy games lol

[mks]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-10-17-loot-box-petition-prompts-response-from-uk-government

[DireLogomachist]

Games are cheaper than they've ever been and we've been getting more and better content out of them.

We're drowning in quality content we could never fully enjoy and can do nothing but bitch.

[wccrawford]

Games are cheaper than they've ever been and we've been getting more and better content out of them.

We're drowning in quality content we could never fully enjoy and can do nothing but bitch.

And we roundly reject any effort to charge more, to the point that the industry has had to get creative to continue affording to create the monster games that gamers now demand as a matter of course.  If a AAA game is lacking in *any* way compared to other AAA games, they scream bloody murder, but insist on paying the same price year after year, regardless of inflation or other increased costs.

[Capntastic]

Paying money to get "shards" or "gems"  at a dollar to 100 coin ratio or whatever is literaly what slot machines do to keep you from realizing you are burning money

It is effective

[Superb Joe]

it's rude and illegal for the inscrutable japanese to make pachislot games, but i will fight and die for any first person shooter that allows me to engage in financial speculation. the money i make shall either go towards my new cryptocurrency "Autism Kroners" or realising my dream of fucking a loaded m16

[iMaple]

I remember being vehemently opposed to the idea of microtransactions and DLC when the practice started to become mainstream. That was before I started working on games and the world seemed much more black and white back then.

Marketing on any level is about taking advantage of human psychology. Premium currencies, pre-order bonuses, limited editions and now loot boxes. None of these methods are inherently evil, it comes down to the execution.

While I think it's completely fair to criticize some of the recent developments, starting government petitions to classify lootboxes as gambling in order to "protect children" is extremely unproductive.

But to answer the original question, I do not think $60 games as we knew them 10 years ago are viable anymore. The industry has evolved in how we make games, and how we distribute them. Post launch monetization is a great way to generate more revenue from players without increasing the initial entry cost, and helps extend the life cycle of a game.

[Cobralad]

i was also human before i realised that exploiting other people feels good

[Cobralad]

loot boxes keep servers populated in multiplayer games, their low implementation cost and financial endurance after launch is what made money-crazed EA nymphs lusty.
Main problem is that people gonna hang on to "is this gambling" instead of "is this a deliberately broken reward loop that influences your behaviour daily, and thats not mentioning weird monetary deception and targeting it at kids". I think gamers already lost momentum with "addictive" games and classics of game that may be encouraging OCD. ESRD may be no good because it was created when Penny Arcade used to be leaders of videogame academical thinking.
Basicaly, we need a lasting research on influence of abusive design elements in videogames and then prove it before the council of actual sex-offenders.

[iMaple]

Monetization has been an integral part of game design for a while now, from MMORPGs to mobile games and now AAA titles. Some games are more manipulative than others and not all manage to be fun to actually play. There is certainly a discussion to be had around games being designed to fuel an addiction over creating a fun experience, but at the end of the day that's what it is, a game trying to efficiently monetize its players. I don't see how that is exploitative or abusive and warrants a government intervention.

[s0]

the AAA business model is just inherently terrible and unhealthy. but gamers would actually have to stop supporting it rather than just whining on the internet (but buying the games anyway) if they want anything to change.

[Superb Joe]

i tried to warn you. you shoulda bought transformers.

[s0]

i bought nier automata, that should be MORE THAN ENOUGH

[Superb Joe]

imo photogrammetry is compounding the issue of graphics assets expense rather than aiding it, because now in addition to character models requiring thousands of man hours all of your rocks and whatever else need technical artists. and for whatever reason the big franchises aren't into asset reuse.

the yakuza 2 remake is going to use 11 year old motion capture data and pre existing environmental assets. given how much this shit costs even when your insane normal mapped doodads are outsourced to hundreds of chinese artists that's the level of recycling you realistically need to do because consumers are only going to support a handful of games that need additional money streams, and then youre throwing good money after bad developing all of this horseshit when your money game just gets eaten alive by gta5

[Superb Joe]

i bought nier automata, that should be MORE THAN ENOUGH

perfect example:

not every game can be nier but its judicious use of budget is something that needs to become more commonplace imo instead of avoiding that conversation and trying to jam ever more revenue streams into the same sized box

[s0]

not every game can be nier but its judicious use of budget is something that needs to become more commonplace imo instead of avoiding that conversation and trying to jam ever more revenue streams into the same sized box

problem is, people WANT those AAA blockbusters but they don't want to face the economic reality of those games. i think many "core gamers" don't realize that they are essentially a niche market and that the entire industry relies on a handful of people preordering a game that cost 50+ million dollars to develop.

if gamers want to continue playing those games, they'll either have to put up with loot boxes and microtransactions or they'll have to put up with paying upwards of $80 for a new game. either that or the AAA industry scales back and there'll be more games like nier and fewer games like GTA 5 (this would be the best case scenario imo, but idk how realistic it is).

[Cobralad]

gta 5 and witchr 3 suck hard because they made on blood, but they set unrealistic standart of beauty to other games.
CD project is falling apart right now but free DLC stunt absolved them before consumers. Also gaming right activists declare stuff like Path of Exile as golden success on launch, without waiting for layoffs and activision merger.