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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignSo what are you working on?
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gimymblert
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« Reply #12340 on: July 25, 2017, 03:39:15 PM »

People keep telling nomura's style is busy, but he is popular and people identify his character correctly, busy is in general about readability but people start to be confused and think it mean tasteful, but then that's policing style rather than about graphic principle.

The second attempts is good IMHO, it remove the unnecessary details and keep things thatflows together. I think his character read well, it's an energetic cocky character in the style of the inspiration, the viual overflow with energy, which is what people think as busy, it's actually instantly kinetic due to the use of contrast not busy. The "busyness" is actually well distributed to segment the character in functional part, like the hand, the face and the feet, this kind of segmentation is usual in the model used, like sonic, he follow the same logic. The kinetic line of the hair and of the body reflect each other, so it's not distracting it's a pattern that give identity and it's the principle reason it feels kinetic.

But the stroke of genius is the composition of the face, the white of the hat and the beige of the face are neutral color that counter act the violent opposition of the hi contrast of the hair and body and act as a comfortable buffer that draws the eyes to the character's eye and allows to read the personality. And while that's accidental, the eyes are thing the brain latch on, by having resting place in that area that push the kinect aspect to peripheral vision make the character appears kinetic while not distracting. Similarly the hand have a neutral contrast that oppose naturally to the vibrant contrast of the body, while the feet have some more contrast that give energy and suggest further mobility from the character and the socks is having again a neutral separation from the body.

That said the sprite work is really not good, shapes and animation are okay, but color contrast distribution is all other the place, and that's for all sprite character.
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« Reply #12341 on: July 25, 2017, 05:46:44 PM »

People keep telling nomura's style is busy, but he is popular and people identify his character correctly, busy is in general about readability but people start to be confused and think it mean tasteful, but then that's policing style rather than about graphic principle.

The second attempts is good IMHO, it remove the unnecessary details and keep things thatflows together. I think his character read well, it's an energetic cocky character in the style of the inspiration, the viual overflow with energy, which is what people think as busy, it's actually instantly kinetic due to the use of contrast not busy. The "busyness" is actually well distributed to segment the character in functional part, like the hand, the face and the feet, this kind of segmentation is usual in the model used, like sonic, he follow the same logic. The kinetic line of the hair and of the body reflect each other, so it's not distracting it's a pattern that give identity and it's the principle reason it feels kinetic.

But the stroke of genius is the composition of the face, the white of the hat and the beige of the face are neutral color that counter act the violent opposition of the hi contrast of the hair and body and act as a comfortable buffer that draws the eyes to the character's eye and allows to read the personality. And while that's accidental, the eyes are thing the brain latch on, by having resting place in that area that push the kinect aspect to peripheral vision make the character appears kinetic while not distracting. Similarly the hand have a neutral contrast that oppose naturally to the vibrant contrast of the body, while the feet have some more contrast that give energy and suggest further mobility from the character and the socks is having again a neutral separation from the body.

That said the sprite work is really not good, shapes and animation are okay, but color contrast distribution is all other the place, and that's for all sprite character.

This is the most thorough review that I've ever received gimymblert. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you for sending me in the right direction.

I'm going to completely redo the sprite art.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 12:30:07 AM by 24-bit Color » Logged

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« Reply #12342 on: July 26, 2017, 05:11:00 PM »

The problem is that the saturation and levels are too high, most notably the shoes with the blinding white highlights. I think something more like this works better (simple levels and contrast/brightness adjustment):

Even still I think the boots might be too eye-grabbing, the bright colour and highlights kind of screams that they are the focal point of the design. When you look at the character the first thing your eyes are drawn to are the boots.

And this problem is 100 times worse in the sprite because you have single pixels of pure white popping in, this is why people are saying it's too busy. The 100% saturated white in tiny lines and single pixels along with the small lines of highly saturated yellow for the fingers/knuckles are very distracting and this takes the attention away from the overall design.
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« Reply #12343 on: July 26, 2017, 05:41:50 PM »

The problem is that the saturation and levels are too high

Following Lee's + gimymblert advice



You'll never believe this, but I chose the shoes to be a bright color because the character is supposed to, according to the plot, be very interested in his shoes.

So much so that the storyline involves him chasing down another character for most of the game for simply stepping on his shoes.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 07:01:40 PM by 24-bit Color » Logged

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« Reply #12344 on: July 26, 2017, 06:43:18 PM »

I like to ask people who think super dull color where they lives, I lives in a tropical island, so super bright stuff is normal.

But then one days I got into france and god damn those same color with the super dull overcast sky and overall dull urban color, they look bad in that context (and so did my tropical t shirts).

I had a back and forth with an otherwise excellent artist about the design of some game he trashed for the color design, but then I seen on his devlog he shared picture of his home place, and it's snow covering hint of darkbrown tree trunks ... like his arts !

Similarly, once another artist offered me help, but didn't want to follow my advice and picked photo (close to his home) with high moisture forest ... which had the same contrast! Of course I counter pick image from where I live that had the characteristic I wanted lol

BUT This one is WAY TOO dull even by that standard, look at the original reference he assemble, the color are way brighter. But also his character is a bit different, he is a bit more extrem, hence it's reflected in the design.

So let's look at references:

The original where al ready dull and wash out by standard, the new one make it worse, it lack enough saturation ranges and all contrast are just squashed together awkardly.

I would say keep the original colors but use the new version color on the shoes and gants.Remove the white spot on the shoes too, fill them with a darker shade from a color on the shoes. You use 3 shades of pink on the shoes, keep only 2. Fill the necklace with the same color of the socks. Fill the darker shade of purple in the hair with the lighter shade above, and remove the greenish yellow shadow in the hair to fill them with the same orange shadow from the yellow part of the chest.

The sprite is not the same character lol, don't have the same personality!
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« Reply #12345 on: July 26, 2017, 06:56:02 PM »

It's dull

I agree, I wonder if there's a middle ground between brightness and readability?

The new sprite looks less expressive and less aggressive, but did I actually improve the contrast gimymbert?. I need to work on it.



Have a look at these:






How close am I getting?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 07:06:19 PM by 24-bit Color » Logged

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« Reply #12346 on: July 26, 2017, 07:54:57 PM »

Color wise I don't see the difference lol, I wasn't taking about the sprite. The art have different pose but his design still say the same things, he has the visual language of a chaotic character ready to attack, light on its feet, that you can't thrust. Hence why I think the extra jagged line work with him. I mean look at how the line converge toward his face, you have the hair going up, the muzzle hair going outward, and the chest line going down, this is the impression of an explosion, and you have the character with a slight tilt of the head looking at you with one eyes hidden, that's the visual language of someone gauging you, he has sharp teeth, which mean he is aggressive, and he is smiling, so there is an anticipation. The open mouth suggest more excitation than the close one, but they don't much change who teh character is. Compare to that:

The visual language are similar



When I say dull I say low contrast and lack of saturation. I'm not sure how much you understand the language of color theory.

You aren't really close to the visual language of sonic battle though, character are less lanky and more chunky, they also have very good anatomy and I don't think you are at that level of skills yet lol.

The sprite has an entirely different visual language, it's more of a hero character, with wide eyes and stoic and determine demeanor, he is urban cool but that's it, he is reliable.


But maybe if you don't master those things, you should just roll with what you have, you will get better over time, so no need to stress too much.
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« Reply #12347 on: July 26, 2017, 07:59:48 PM »

But maybe if you don't master those things, you should just roll with what you have, you will get better over time, so no need to stress too much.

I want to improve now. I'm going to keep revising these until it becomes perfect.

I'm afraid even if I make this look better, it'll just look good by accident accidental. None of the descriptions, ideas, themes, and messages that you're so poetically describing here were in my mind when making this, if anything about this looks good, it was purely by accident.

I wish I could analyze character design in the way that you do gimymblert. You seem to have a strong idea of what's really happening when a player sees a character.
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« Reply #12348 on: July 26, 2017, 10:45:23 PM »

Don't worry too much about, it's more important to train instinct first, logic is there to tighten things up later, most good art are made by accident, by sketching furiously until it feel right. Having this sense of it "feel right" is the most important to not make things soulless, logic can make you do correct things but the extra bit will only come with intuition.
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« Reply #12349 on: July 27, 2017, 07:13:01 AM »

I will say that I think my edit was a bit too harsh on some of the design because it was late and I was too lazy to edit on a per colour basis. My edit focused on getting the boots to a more correct range and I would say the range of reds in my edit is closer to Sonic's boots than the original. But looking at it now, the purples ended up being a bit too darkened and subdued for example, the whites could be a bit whiter, and the yellows could stand to be a little brighter.

The point was to show how things were too light and white-washed in general in the original image, it wasn't meant to be taken as an absolute colour reference but rather to give you another point of view. If you look at the Sonic drawings you posted, even the bright colours cover a range of tones from dark to light (although to relative amounts).
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« Reply #12350 on: July 27, 2017, 01:57:35 PM »



EDIT: Holy fuck there are some horrific typos going on there... My brain is not with it today.
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« Reply #12351 on: July 27, 2017, 02:48:09 PM »

Well JWK5 is the local god of color, he is giving you good advices
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« Reply #12352 on: July 27, 2017, 09:35:06 PM »

..

Thanks, I'm sorry for posting so frequently in this thread, that's what a devlog is for!


This revision looked so good, I had to try to see how it would look around neutral-green surroundings.

My mockup looks much better with your color scheme JWK5. In fact, thanks to you, I'll probably have to create a different sprite color palette depending on the level that the sprite is used on.

Thank you so much for the help! I'll keep everything in mind now as I continue!
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« Reply #12353 on: July 28, 2017, 12:21:51 AM »

No problem, I am glad to be of help! Smiley If you ever need any more help with it all feel free to PM me or whatever.

There's also a bunch more of my tutorials that I've done for others here that cover a great deal more about color theory and whatnot if you're interested (I've added yours to the heap with a nice traffic-luring link to your Devlog for good measure).
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« Reply #12354 on: July 31, 2017, 05:38:12 AM »

Struggling on my character design.

On saturday I made what I thought is a pretty good implementation of walljumping. Also cleaned up/optimized a bunch of code so that I have a base as clean as I can get it as I move forward. Then on sunday morning I start thinking on my character sprite, total blocker. It's not my strength at all.

You know how there's something almost out of your range of vision that you can almost see? You think you know what it looks like but as soon as you go in for a better look, it just keeps shifting away? That's how I feel when imagining how a character looks, and then trying to put it down to paper/pixels. I thought I had a good idea what it should look like, but the brain->screen translation is a bitch. Even if it is only 32x32.

I might try modeling it instead, with simple shapes and colors. I feel quite at home in modeling software so maybe that'll help.
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Samaras-Sama
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« Reply #12355 on: July 31, 2017, 09:06:01 PM »

Struggling on my character design.

On saturday I made what I thought is a pretty good implementation of walljumping.

Screenshots?  Beg
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« Reply #12356 on: August 01, 2017, 04:47:12 AM »

Struggling on my character design.

On saturday I made what I thought is a pretty good implementation of walljumping.

Screenshots?  Beg

maybe once I have an actual character sprite bouncing around. Wink right now it's just a ball.
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« Reply #12357 on: August 01, 2017, 03:13:52 PM »

Screenshots?  Beg

maybe once I have an actual character sprite bouncing around. Wink right now it's just a ball.
[/quote]


hmmm... eh why not

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Samaras-Sama
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« Reply #12358 on: August 04, 2017, 08:42:07 AM »



WIP
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« Reply #12359 on: August 04, 2017, 03:02:17 PM »

@Muki
Oh hey, you have a lot of good looking stuff going on there!
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