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[Lobotomist]

Ok first post, and also collaboration seeking one.

I am sorry for not posting it inside of longtailed collaboration sticky...i just wanted this to be noticed 


Good...lets not waste time...


I have this crazy insane and perhaps bit sacrilegious idea.


I want to make roguelike game with GRAPHIC! and wait thats not all. It would also have INTUITIVE mouse menus !!! ( how does he dare  )... And for a final stroke, it should also have MULTIPLAYER 

Well there you go. I just made every roguelike fan cry in anger.

Or maybe you are thinking "Somebody should tell him Diablo was allready made (and D3 is on the way)"

Let me get to my last point.

This game would be browser based. Minimal download. Playable in 5-10-20 minute chunks. Ideal for coffe break. Yet still having all complexity and addictivnes of true hack and slash roguelike , that always changes.

And yes it would be persistent. And kind of multiplayer.

And to add a cherry atop of the cream - the game will be based (in spirit) on Steve Jackson Munchkins http://www.worldofmunchkin.com/rpg/ (it is a parody on rpg games)


Ok...

So. I am graphic designer , illustrator and Flash animator by profession. This i think cowers the graphic part of the game. I would also design the game or we can do it together.

In my opinion perfect building block would be Angband (which is open source if i am not mistaken)

What we would need is a coder.
And eventually business manager to set up the site and organize how we can earn some money from the project and develop it further.


Thats it... 


Please post here if you are interested. Or drop me PM.

Also any comments are welcome.

[ortoslon]

Well there you go. I just made every roguelike fan cry in anger.

I'm a long-time player of DoomRL and Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup (hint: these are the games to steal ideas from), and this project leaves me excited...

In my opinion perfect building block would be Angband (which is open source if i am not mistaken)

...but if your game turns out to be as generic and grindy as Angband, I'll be disappointed. But yes, Angband source code was GPL'd not long ago. You should also consider POWDER, it has less restrictive license. Also, post about your project on rgrd, you're likely to get more specific comments.

[Lobotomist]

Well. I used Angband just to illustrate the concept - Being Village "hub" and descend into a dungeon that is randomly generated each time.

I agree that Dungeon Crawl would perhaps be the closest candidate. Except for two things:
Map design - since i feel that crawl lacks on corridors , secret rooms and its level maps are to large.

And second would be lack of escape options. That makes Crawl quite frustrating at times...


But
Honestly my aim is to finally bridge the gap that in my opinion prevents roguelike games truly entering mainstream in all their glory. And that is first and foremost their interface , and second graphic animation and sound.

Changing this. But still staying slim , quick - and most importantly browser based.

I think this could truly be exciting 

[ortoslon]

You could rewrite Crawl level generator to make smaller levels with more secret doors and vaults. And no, Crawl doesn't suffer from lack of escape options. Have you actually beaten it? And then, how forgiving do you want your game to be?

[Lobotomist]

Ah no..hehe. I am afraid i didnt beat crawl 

Lack of escape options in Crawl sometime occur at lover levels when you suddenly confront tricky monster (let say ogre). If you lack magical means of escaping , there is practically no other escape option.

In some other roguelikes you have options of defensive stances, running...and other non magic means of escape (Adom , Incursion - for example)


My vision is to make a game a bit more persistent. Make you more attached to the character.

But all this is entirely open to discussion.

My ideas range from several lives to possibility to recover dead characters equipment..

....

Anyway - considering all that you said. Crawl does sound as a perfect candidate.


What do you think of possibility to transform Crawls interface to mouse driven ?

And ... is there a possibility to integrate it into web browser ?

(as Quake Live , Free Realms, Battlefield heroes ... for example)

[ortoslon]

Ah no..hehe. I am afraid i didnt beat crawl 

Because you didn't start running from nasty monsters as soon as you see them. That's the primary non-magical escape option in Crawl. It's quite unforgiving because failure to recognise danger forces player to burn finite resources.

Anyway - considering all that you said. Crawl does sound as a perfect candidate.

Crawl code is considered to be a mess, compared to Angband's or POWDER's, although it is getting clearer through rewrites. Angband is the most stable of them. You may want to ask the Stone Soup team or the author of Zot Defence (which is a Crawl mod).

What do you think of possibility to transform Crawls interface to mouse driven ?

Why not, but you'd better get rid of multi-purpose items and spells like Sticks to Snakes which requires you to wield arrows. I play Crawl almost exclusively with keyboard because I'm a touch-typist. Look at POWDER's interface: it's designed to be played with stylus (on handhelds) or mouse with drag and drop.

And ... is there a possibility to integrate it into web browser ?

I don't know. Crawl is C++, POWDER is C.

[Lobotomist]

Hmmm...well yes. I can aswell contact some roguelike development team.

But I fear most of dedicated roguelike developers will not be to happy about mouse driven interface.

Still i feel it is necessary step in making real user friendly and easy to get into RPG.

As for browser integration , this might be one of the future goals. But the whole idea is that the game is playable trough browser. From internet (using plugin) And that there is some kind of multiplayer community level to it. Even if that is only item trading and such.

[ortoslon]

But I fear most of dedicated roguelike developers will not be to happy about mouse driven interface.

Why? One of DCSS goals is beginner friendliness (read section N. of the manual), the current unstable tiles version supports mouse control for traveling, targeting, inventory management and menu selection. There are plans to add buttons for every possible action including spells and invocations. POWDER is a portable roguelike designed for fast play, it's fully playable with a mouse (watch Lim-Dul's Let's Play POWDER series on YouTube). Also, take a look at LambdaRogue's approach to streamlining interface. Modern roguelikes are increasingly graphical, mouse-driven and beginner-friendly (with tutorials).

[Brocklesocks]

This sounds interesting to me, too. I also work as a graphic designer and illustrator, and would be willing to contribute to this. I can also do some sound and music. PM if interested 

[Lobotomist]

I am surely interested. And i think it completely covers Graphic and sound.
Now we need programmer (or more).

I will probably contact Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup team , to see if they are interested.

[ortoslon]

Transhuman Design of Soldat fame announced a similar (but singleplayer) project on rgrd and rgrm. Unfortunately, they were looking for a programmer too, but at least they have a design document.

[Lobotomist]

Wow...

Developers of Soldat  - Respect

Thanks for link.

Ofcorse , now that I read it...Its hauntingly similar to my own idea.

And they probably have much better chance of actually realizing the project...

Well , at least somebody will make such game. Which is good enough for me.

[ortoslon]

Have I just killed a roguelike in embryo with a link? What if policemen arrive? *runs away*

[Lobotomist]

Hehe. Dont worry mate ...

I am glad to see i am not the only one with this idea. And honestly Soldat developers will probably do a better job at it.

So at least the game gets to see the light of day...and thats fine with me

[qubodup]

Use more whitespace to get noticed better.

So you want to make a rogue-like more intuitive and give it graphics and earn money with the outcome.

Ok, for an example of graphic-roguelike take a look at http://www.lostlabyrinth.com/ . I am a person who HATES roguelikes (except IVAN, which I only don't like) but I can actually play lost labyrinth without much pain, so this shows that graphics are a good thing.

I'm glad you want to make a user-accessible roguelike (no such thing yet) and as game mechanics and teaching players is very complex, I can only offer you two articles, that deal pretty much with what you want:

making simple but deep rpgs: http://simblob.blogspot.com/2009/05/following-multiple-paths-in-rpgs.html

learning in games: http://lostgarden.com/2008/10/princess-rescuing-application-slides.html