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[lordmetroid]

The normal computer game shops that sells physical copies of games to customer all have the same games, this is boooring!

Then it dawned on me, I may want to try to open up a retail shop selling indie games. As most indie games are only sold over the internet there would of course be a need to create a cover DVD image and package it and most probably also negotiate reselling agreements between the indie game developers. What you think about this idea? You think it is even plausible to do?

[Alec S.]

I think this could conceivable be pretty interesting.  The issue, of course, is that many indie games don't come in physical form so you would have to work it out with the developers to get physical copies to sell.

[c-foo peng]

Plausible to do? Definitely. Of course, you might need thousands in expendable cash that you don't mind ever getting back.

I could see an indie games section piggybacking off of places like indie pop art galleries like Nucleus and Giant Robo though. Or mom and pop game retro game stores. Or something like this...

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

if you have a hundred thousand dollars you wouldn't mind risking on an experiment like this, it's possible.

[lordmetroid]

I think it may be just too expensive for a guy like me without any capital at all...

[Craig Stern]

Plausible? Let's walk through this.

You would need to lease a commercial store front somewhere and pay rent each month. You would need to buy displays and (unless it came with one) pay to have a counter built where you would put the cash register. You would have to buy a cash register. You would either have to run the place and sell all the games by yourself, or form a partnership with someone who would share responsibilities, and/or hire employees. All of this is plausible if you have the time and the money.

One big problem, IMHO, will be gathering inventory. You'll need to either buy indie games individually and in bulk (which I could easily see taking lots and lots of time) and then mark the games up enough to cover your expenses, or negotiate one by one with indie game designers to buy the games in bulk at a discounted rate so you can sell them for a price more competitive with the online version (which I could also see taking a really long time to set up). Stores like Gamestop get the advantage of dealing with publishers who represent dozens of developers. You won't get that advantage--you'll have to seek out each developer individually with few exceptions (e.g. Hothead).

You'll also probably need to burn the games to physical media yourself, since very few indie game designers have gone to the trouble and expense of shipping their games in physical form. Actually, maybe you could do something sly: have a stand-up display or two in-store where people can play demos of these games for free, then burn the game they choose to purchase right on the spot at the cash register. That wouldn't save you the trouble of buying games in advance, but it would save you the trouble of burning tons of CDs you won't sell (or, worse, which might get stolen by shoplifters).

Ultimately, I suspect your biggest problem will be selling enough inventory at enough of a mark-up to cover your expenses. I've never heard of anybody doing this before, so you'd be taking sort of a leap of faith into a brand-new market that hasn't been developed yet outside of niche communities on the internet. You'd have to do the leg work yourself, buying advertising and drumming up community interest (e.g. by holding multiplayer indie game tournaments with titles like Multiwinia).

I agree that it would be an awful risk, but all that having been said, I would love to see somebody do this.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

multiwinia is already in retail stores though -- that is too mainstream for this store! :p

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

also, you forgot the most important / tedious part: having to get a business license and deal with local and federal regulations about stores and videogame stores. for instance, because indie games are usually unrated by the esrb, you may even have to *pay* to get a game rated with the esrb before you sell it in stores, legally. and considering that that costs around $5000 per game or so, that'd be pretty pricy.

[george]

for instance, because indie games are usually unrated by the esrb, you may even have to *pay* to get a game rated with the esrb before you sell it in stores, legally. and considering that that costs around $5000 per game or so, that'd be pretty pricy.

isn't the esrb itself voluntary though? I'm not sure what states or local juridstictions have tacked on top of that, but if you're not worried about marketing to parents specifically you may not need esrb ratings.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

hm, yes and no -- it's strictly not illegal, but it's still enforced. from wikipedia: "The Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) is a self-regulatory organization that puts ratings into force, advertising guidelines, and online privacy principles for computer and video games and other entertainment software in Canada and the United States." -- note the wording "puts ratings into force". although in theory someone could sell games at retail without an esrb rating, it's never been done, to my knowledge. so if someone tried it i'd at the very least expect a lot of controversy and investigation and so on, especially if you tried to sell games to people under 18. it'd be seen as breaking their self-regulation, and the esrb and other retail stores that do abide by the esrb are not going to take kindly on it.

[lordmetroid]

I am in Sweden, I do not need to jump though all legal hoops and fees you have to in the states. Though that doesn't matter, I am not going to start this venture at all. I got no market where I am(Town with about a population of 40k people) and I got no money for rent anyway...

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

from what i hear, EU has a mandatory ratings system for games sold in stores, though -- so it'd be even worse in europe, since they legally have to be rated before they can be sold i believe

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

Obviously something like this is probably beyond the means of any of us, but let's fantasise about such an establishment.

A better arrangement would probably be an indie-game 'cafe/gallery', where games are provided for customers, or presented as art galleries. You let people borrow laptops with a selection of chosen games, and you could have videos of indie-games running on video screens.  Such an establishment would be a cool and trendy place to go, and people would have opportunity to meet other indie game fans and developers. Thinking of it like an art place would make it easier in general, and I'm sure there are some options to monetise a place like that. However, in this day and age, and given the medium, it's a pretty distant 'dream'.

[undertech]

A big trench coat lined with your inventory in zip-loc bags. You're a big guy right? Bigger the better, more room for titles!

[kyn]

The best thing you could realistically accomplish would be getting some sort of deal with a local gaming store, and open up a stand inside of that store that specially deals with indie games. Or some sort of local annual indie game fair.

[c-foo peng]

I kinda like the Japanese model of selling indie games at comic book conventions. Maybe pool some indie developers together for a booth at Comic-con or something? I could see that working I think.

[Radix]

Yeah, dispense with the traditional shopfront bit and it'd work as well as selling anything else if you put in the legwork. Targeting geeks by setting up shop in an expo is an excellent idea, those tables don't cost that much and attendees are already in buy-anything-cool mode. A low price point, cases in little baggies, and a screen+joypad for people to crowd around I can see working really well. Choose some games that suit the con's theme for posters to hang, but just sell whatever and lie to the organisers if you must to get on the floor.

[Loren Schmidt]

I really like Dock's idea of combining games a games shop / gallery with another business model. There are a couple of gallery spaces near where I live that can't afford to stay open based on art sales alone, so they have attached cafes.

They also have scheduled social events- gallery shows, 'meet the artist' type evenings (like book signings), and live music. I think that sort of thing could really help make a shop such as we're dreaming about into a little cultural magnet for trendy artiste / geek types. While I doubt galleries near where I live are lucrative, the fact that they've stayed open for so long certainly is encouraging.

I also could see having an independent games area in a local bookstore, an art gallery, or a comics store. As long as it's a labor of love, and no one expects to make any money, I think it could definitely happen and would be pretty neat.

[Aquin]

I actually did this for reals, so listen for a sec.

First off, you must live in the city.  A small town isn't gonna cut it.  You want a population in the service area of at least 100,000... and that's if you don't have much competition to begin with.

Secondly, you need to accept that you are a small store that nobody cares about.  Trying to get product will be a pain in the ass.  Your games will cost $10 more than the usual and there really isn't much you can do about it.

Thirdly, you won't make much money.  Most stores operate on a 100% return on CoG.  You will be lucky if you get 15%. 

---

You'll need to carry mainstream games as well, unless you're willing to heavily be a specialty store (like Triforce or Pink Godzilla.) there really is no way around having a broad stock. 

Most indie games are downloadable only and do not have physical copies for sale.

=====

This can be done, I operated such a store up until the financial crisis (amongst other factors) forced us to close.  If we had more operating capital, we probably would have survived just fine.

I know you can open the store + inventory for about $30k.  Too much money for you?  Perhaps not.  Consult a local business developer (over a bank) to negotiate a 5-year loan.  This can be done rather easily.  Learn about business plans, because they will want you to have one.

There are thousands of little steps to consider, but I won't bother with details unless anyone is actually interested in this headache-to-be.

[MrChocolateBear]

There are thousands of little steps to consider, but I won't bother with details unless anyone is actually interested in this headache-to-be.

I am very interested! Please tell us more about your experience.
Its not everyday people can come across information like this.