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ness io kain
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« on: May 27, 2009, 11:13:03 AM »

I know there's a topic for collaboration, but I figured this was big enough to warrant its own thread.

It seems like a fairly significant number of game ideas begin with "When I was a kid my friends/siblings and I invented a game...". That's how this one starts too. Smiley

We played a game that took various forms. We played it with Legos, things we made out of cardboard and polymer clay, or random plastic junk lying around the house. But no matter what we used, the game was essentially the same.
Each person playing ran some sort of business. Usually these started as something very small (like a vending machine). These were set up on a street, and everyone went around purchasing everyone else's wares. This doesn't sound all that fun or interesting, I know. But over time (as we grew older and we were less entertained by simplicity) more rules were added to govern the game, and things were made more dynamic.
In the end, it looked more or less like this (and it's pretty much what an electronic version would look like, too):

You begin the game with a sum of money and a plot of land. You can build whatever you want, but you can really only afford a vending machine or small kiosk (later on, if you make enough money, you can purchase new land and start new stores). Other people will be setting up new businesses, too. Once everyone has built something, the game begins.
Every day you can go about and shop from everyone's stores. The owner chooses what products to sell and sets a price. The business owners are also consumers, of course. But unless their stores are mechanical or there are assistants to watch them, the owners can't walk around without closing the shops. After a short period of time (5-10 minutes?), the day ends. Then a new day will begin and the process repeats itself.
"Now wait." you might say, "That sounds boring and lame. What is this, some kind of weird-American-shopping-for-no-reason-other-than-just-to-have-more-stupid-stuff sim? What's the point in all of this?" Well, hold on! The game involves a lot more than just raw capitalism.
There are some things (such as "really cool hats") that are purely luxury items and have no real benefit. But there are other things that are essential. For example, every day you must eat and drink. Then there are also items that are not required but are useful (vehicles for faster travel, intelligent pets to help you perform various tasks, etc.). Also, of course, every game can be improved by the addition of more violence. (Yes, I do realize that this is not actually true.) So the game also features combat! Combat will happen in various circumstances, but the most frequently occurring one is thievery. Bandits occasionally appear during the night and attempt to steal from shops. If your character was alerted of their presence (because of, for example, a burglar alarm you set up), you will have the opportunity to fight the thieves. Occasionally they will be wanted criminals, and money will be awarded for their capture.
Another part of the game is travel. If you have enough money, you can purchase tickets to various destinations. This will leave you absent for a few days (so it's unwise unless your stores can be run without your help), but it may give you some interesting opportunities, like the chance to catch an exotic animal.
The game is divided up into weeks. The weeks always lasted five days when we played; our games took place in quirky worlds wherein nothing really happened on weekends (there were other weird things about it, such as the fact that there was usually no law enforcement). Weekends are good opportunities (maybe the only opportunities?) to expand your business and construct things. With each new week, the game grows in complexity. Some things, such as travel, are not available until a certain week. In later weeks, crime rates and such increase to make the game more exciting.
Of course the game has to involve competition, which is possibly the most exciting (and often most ridiculous) part of the whole thing. The game's business world can vary depending on how people act. It can be very relaxed and friendly, with lots of deals and cooperation. Or it can be a sinister, cutthroat place.  Mercenaries can be hired (for no small sum) to sabotage other companies or steal their ideas. Bombs can be planted... assassins can be sent out... Nobody ever dies in the game, though. Attempts at people's lives always result only in hospitalization for some period of time.
One particularly humorous example of hostile business relations from a time when I played with my friends and siblings:
My older brother had a fast food shop that sold something very similar to a "Happy Meal". The "toys" they contained, when collected and assembled, created a laser beam that could be mounted on top of one's store and used to basically annihilate anything you didn't like. This had the potential to create some interesting environments (though if I remember correctly it ultimately resulted in the deterioration of that particular game). On the one hand, people might not want to shop at your store if you are so sinister. On the other hand, you could rule by fear, threatening to destroy the buildings owned by anyone who refused to buy from you.

Now, some things related to transitioning the game to computer form:
There would have to be a system for having customizable objects, stores, etc. Then the players could choose what they wanted something to look like and set various properties before selling it. So if you wanted to make a car, you could choose from various car shapes and set a color (maybe it could be sold in multiple colors). Then the car's acceleration, top speed, fuel consumption, etc. could be altered (though there would have to be limits to that so it didn't get too ridiculous). Then a production cost would be calculated based on all of the attributes. Lastly, the player would name the product and set a price to sell it for.
When we played the physical game, we'd set a theme for everything. Sometimes it'd be a science fiction / space age setting, but other times it would have a medieval fantasy setting... In the computer version, the game could be set up so that the player could choose which themes (multiple themes could be selected, or all of them at once) to allow. Each theme (there should be quite a few of them) would have a set of graphics that could be used for stores and products.
Obviously this game would be multiplayer. Here's how I imagine it would work:
Each player would start a game individually. Players are allowed to make multiple characters, but each character would have its own world to play in. Players could play through these worlds totally by themselves if they wanted. AI characters would be set up to take the place of what would have been other people in the physical form of the game. Their behavior wouldn't be as complicated as a human's, of course, but they would buy from each other and the player in addition to selling their own products. (There would also be pedestrians that bought and did not sell.)
The businesses the AI characters owned would be determined based on what business the player chose (to make sure that everything is represented and there isn't, for example, a world without food). The products would be determined from a large library of preset items that corresponded to the themes of that game.
Players would be able to visit the worlds of other people, too (probably only while the other person was online and with permission). While in another world, players could participate in almost every part of it. Stores can't be moved (except for very special stores that were, say, built into a caravan), but players would be able to set up new shops in other players' worlds as long as they had purchased land there. Stores in other players' worlds could be managed from some sort of menu accessible no matter where the player was. That way players could expand their businesses to different locations.
This would allow players a full multiplayer experience without requiring them to always play at the same time as their friends.
I've never worked with online stuff, but I think this would be possible without storing the information on servers...  Shrug
Computers could connect to one another; the computer of the player with the world that was being used could be used essentially operate as the server, and afterward the other players' information would be saved to the data on their computers. Of course, that way shops across worlds could only be updated if both players were online...
I dunno. Seems like it could be worked out, though. Right? Undecided


...That was long.  :D
But now to address the (potential) project itself:

1. This would not have to move quickly, so it need not be anyone's priority. It'd be great if a lot of people could get together and make this game happen!
2. I can do graphics, and I can probably round up some other people to also to graphics and maybe a few other miscellaneous things to.
3. We'd obviously need at least one programmer (preferably someone who knows how to do online stuff) for the game to get off the ground.


If this sounds cool to you... we should do it!
I know it's crazyhuge, but wouldn't it be awesome? It's never going to happen if nobody does anything.
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2009, 01:44:30 PM »

Hey, I totally don't mean to sound like an ass, I just like to swoop in on threads like this with a kind of smarmy comment:

Quote
If this sounds cool to me... I should do it!
I know it's crazyhuge, but wouldn't it be awesome? It's never going to happen if I don't do anything.

fixed Tongue

Seriously, if you are excited about the idea, you may want to make art assets / mockups to pique peoples' interest, and to show off your mad art skillz.

I think the luxury items in this game could be particularly interesting, because they are very much status symbols. If someone is walking around with a fancy outfit, you know they a) have money and b) probably have a well-developed business that got them that money. So, in effect, they aren't useless.

Also, the online play you are talking about sounds like it would need some sort of server of some description. It could be as simple as a lobby server that makes everyones' worlds visible when they are online, but I don't see any way of having that sort of thing be "always on" without a central server running or distributing the instances in some way.

That said, production / economics games are surprisingly fun when done right. Colonization is a good example, except I'd actually prefer that there be no combat at all in that game.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 01:55:16 PM by nihilocrat » Logged

ness io kain
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2009, 05:45:18 PM »

Hey, I totally don't mean to sound like an ass, I just like to swoop in on threads like this with a kind of smarmy comment:

Quote
If this sounds cool to me... I should do it!
I know it's crazyhuge, but wouldn't it be awesome? It's never going to happen if I don't do anything.

fixed Tongue

Seriously, if you are excited about the idea, you may want to make art assets / mockups to pique peoples' interest, and to show off your mad art skillz.

Heh, yes. I'm not sure my "skillz" are exactly "mad"; I used to think I was pretty good, but I've been rather alarmed by the awesome stuff in the "show us some of your pixel work" topic.
Anyhow, I was thinking about doing mockups of some sort, but I'm still thinking about what kind of graphical style I want to do... Something that looks good and is also not too difficult to produce (so that a lot of things could be made).
Anyway, I figured I may as well post the idea first, to at least get it out there even if nothing comes of it.
I do have to admit, though, that the "never going to happen if nobody does something" does seem sort of ridiculous considering I haven't done anything myself yet outside of typing that up.


Meanwhile, on an unrelated note, I was just struck by how the word "vision" in the title seems somewhat pretentious.
...Meh.
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2009, 09:20:19 AM »

If you're not willing to do anything more than talk about your game, neither will any one else.
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 09:55:38 AM »

The design is obviously quite thought out, so that's one step closer to realization than most collab threads. It would help if you decided on a graphical style and started posting mockups.
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 10:13:56 AM »

Here's an idea, I think this would make quite a good browser based mmorpg. There's this tutorial series going on at the minute here http://indie-resource.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=27, watch the tutorials for however long this is going on for and maybe you can learn how to make a bit of what you have planned so far. Once you've made some of it, you can progress from there.
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ness io kain
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 04:11:27 PM »

This wouldn't really work as a "massively multiplayer" game, though. Having a large world / many players at once would make competition more broad and indirect, which would kind of ruin it. There are other problems that would create, too...

The design is obviously quite thought out, so that's one step closer to realization than most collab threads. It would help if you decided on a graphical style and started posting mockups.
Yeah, I've been messing around with a few things, but I haven't decided if I really like any of it yet... I'll keep trying stuff.

Edit:
How about something somewhat abstract?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 06:23:51 PM by The Purple Squerkle » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 10:14:47 AM »

Deliberate Success: Realize Your Vision with Purpose, ... you can use for a lifetime in getting from where you are to where you want to be. ... Help others find this product — tag it for Amazon search ... If the reader does nothing else, the chapters on performance coaching should be taken to heart.
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2009, 08:10:16 PM »

Yes, Squerkle certainly needs leather bras and acne creams to help him with 'Deliberate Success' and to 'Realize Your Vision with Purpose'.

I think you're over... uh... dithering, Squerkle. Don't try to give the same texture to everything. Hand Thumbs Up Right
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real art looks like the mona lisa or a halo poster and is about being old or having your wife die and sometimes the level goes in reverse
ness io kain
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2009, 09:36:11 AM »

Actually the uniform texture was kind of part of the point, but it was probably a bad idea. Tongue

I might try something else, but now I've started working on something that is taking actual substance due to the fact that I can do it myself. Undecided
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