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[timba]

Hey guys. My friend is doing a fight brawler platformer and we are discussing the best keyset to represent actions.

He is currently using ZX to atk1 and atk2 and C to jump. Also arrow keys to move.
Which key is better to jump? C or Space? Why?

[oahda]

Depends a lot on the intended audience. If it's just for your group of friends or something like that, anything goes really. But if it's meant as a serious release, it's a bit of a moot point since when you consider an international audience almost any set of fixed keys is a bad choice (Z is not next to the other two on some common Latin layouts and none of the keys exist on non-Latin layouts). Doubly so when you consider accessibility for disabled people. So in that case the best thing would be to just allow people to map keys of their own choice. c:

[swonqi]

Why not just use multiple buttons for it? Unless it's a multiplayer game.

[eyeliner]

F10

[Conny]

Isn't Space by default the best choice?
Most audiences are used to it so you don't have to teach the player as much.

If you have a different layout I would suggest you still give the player the option to assign their own bindings. Especially if you want a little more obscure button for something.

[woodsmoke]

S P A C E

Because it's a platformer so jumping is important. And the space bar is a big huge key you don't have to look for and you can smash it. It can also be pressed with any hand. Heck you can even press it with your foot.

[-Ross]

I would use both if you don't have a bunch of other actions to map, or just space if you do. However...

Rebindable controls are a must-have feature! No matter what default controls you set, there will be lots of people who won't be able to play your game (without messing around with their OS to change their default keyboard layout) unless you allow them to remap the controls. This was standard in games in the 90s, there's no reason to remove the feature now.

Using XCV is better than ZXC - it works with the normal US layout as well as most of Europe I think.

[Ordnas]

ZX+C is absolutely wrong, C key is too near to the others, forcing you to have all the three fingers too near to each other, someone with a big hand/fingers could have some disconfort with this setup. Better to use the spacebar.

[pelle]

F10

This reminds me of one of the first ever PC games I played, where using F-keys for jumps etc actually made a lot of sense: Bushido - Way of The Warrior (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/bushido   also looks great for a CGA game from 1983).

But that required an original PC/XT keyboard. Try to play it in an emulator now and it is just confusing, because the F-keys are no long arranged in two columns on the side of the keyboard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard#/media/File:IBM_Model_F_XT.png

With that original keyboard the controls were so obvious. If I remember correctly F9 and F10 at the bottom was to roll left/right, F7 and F8 above was to kick downwards left/right, and so on up, different functions doing the same thing to the left or right.

I say all that 1. because this reminded me of that great old game and 2. to reiterate that you should not depend on thinking you know anything about the player's keyboard layout as others already said.

[-Ross]

ZX+C is absolutely wrong, C key is too near to the others, forcing you to have all the three fingers too near to each other, someone with a big hand/fingers could have some discomfort with this setup. Better to use the spacebar.

Do you actually know someone whose hands are so big they can't type on a normal keyboard?

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

zxc was the default control for a lot of platformers on pc/ported on pc (metal slug serie, wild guns reloaded etc...) or emulators.

the other commonly seen default control is JKL when WASD is used for movement.

[Ordnas]

ZX+C is absolutely wrong, C key is too near to the others, forcing you to have all the three fingers too near to each other, someone with a big hand/fingers could have some discomfort with this setup. Better to use the spacebar.

Do you actually know someone whose hands are so big they can't type on a normal keyboard?

No, but I know that anyone who tries to keep their finger on ZXC with their left-hand lifted up after 1 hour of gameplay will feel tired.

zxc was the default control for a lot of platformers on pc/ported on pc (metal slug serie, wild guns reloaded etc...) or emulators.

the other commonly seen default control is JKL when WASD is used for movement.

Indeed pc porting like Metal Slug was bad porting, and it is improbable that who ported Metal Slug will think carefully gameplay stuff like "control layout" or mouse support.
Emulators are made by programmers, which do not have a deep knowledge of gameplay/user relations like user interface layout or controller tuning design, which a game designer should know instead.

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

zxc was also popularized by the the Flixel game dev framework (Flash games golden age).



so you'd rather go with the zx+spacebar. Have you tried playing with this layout?

There's a reason wasd goes well with the spacebar for jumping , hand structure:

(not my hand)

Are you supposed to use your thumb or your finger with the zx+spacebar layout? because at least with zxc, your fingers are aligned.
I'd get a hand cramp in less than 15 min by using the zx+spacebar layout.

[-Ross]

It's amazing what game developers will argue about, eh?

Hopefully this goes to show the need for rebindable controls, and how vehement people get if you don't map controls exactly the way they personally prefer.

For me, putting my fingers on ZX, ZXC, or XCV, with or without space all feel pretty much the same. It's basically identical to typing position (just bend your fingers a bit more), so I can and have done it for 8+ hours a day with no discomfort.

[Ordnas]

Give a chance to the user to rebind controls is an important decision that should not be taken for granted, expecially in a fight brawler, so every player can customize his/her controls, but it is also important to  define a proper default configuration that can feel intuitive and comfortable for the player that wants to play without thinking about configurations and stuff.

I suggest to keep as reference the last successful platformer games on the market, like Cuphead, Owlboy or even Rayman Legends, so who plays your game can recognize and remember the controls without the frustration to remember which key to press.

At the end I strongly advice the use of spacebar, the most used and recognized key for jumping.

[Raptor85]

In completely keyboard based games like that, i actually prefer to use WASD for movement and the numpad for all actions/jumping, it's easy to keep your hand centered on the numpad and you can easily reach all the keys there comfortably when playing for long periods.  ZX+C i always found to be such a weird way to hold your hand, like you're trying to maintain a vulcan nerve pinch for hours at a time, and ZX+Space is just a bizarre angle to hold your hand.

Going back to the old days on pc though, in general the default was arrow keys to move and ctrl/shift/space to jump/fire (generally jump on ctrl).  I never remember ZX+C being popular anywhere but flash games.

[J-Snake]

Keyboard input can be a cramp for many people. The thumb is a more distinguished finger, and if it has some space between other fingers, it can be utilized well. So WASD and Space can be a good choice. But keys should be rebindable anyway.

[pelle]

+1 for space

Going back to the old days on pc though, in general the default was arrow keys to move and ctrl/shift/space to jump/fire (generally jump on ctrl).  I never remember ZX+C being popular anywhere but flash games.

Seconding that. In Europe the Z key is in another place than on the US keyboard layout, it's right up in the middle of the keyboard... so the ZX keys are quite a strange choice for playing. CTRL/SHIFT/ALT are always in known positions, and always available(?), so that might always work. Or make it super easy to reconfigure the keys by asking the player to "choose your punch button", "press the jump button" with huge text in full screen mode, before even starting the game the first time... that leads to less frustration than reconfiguring it in a sub menu or in a even a config file IMHO...

Z key in Scandinavia is in the same location as in the US, but I know on German keyboards it is elsewhere (and I believe in French as well?).

CTRL was always the fire-key in early FPS games (Wolfenstein, DOOM, Duke 3D, Quake). Even after games started to switch to use the mouse button to fire they kept supporting ctrl as a default option (no need to configure it). I insisted on re-configuring every game to use the mouse buttons for movement like I did since DOOM. I still think it is much better feeling in firing by bashing the CTRL key than to click a mouse button. That just feels way to wimpy to be an attack action. Anyway nowadays FPS games tend to use CTRL for other things and I eventually surrendered and started using the default controls.

But speaking of old PC controls, that was a mess in the early 90's with many games ports from non-keyboard platforms like the Amiga (yes, I know they HAD a keyboard, but games barely supported it at all on that platform). So games would often have really weird controls like A/Z to move up/down and O/P to move left/right. Or almost any other combinations of four letters found on a keyboard with more or less no logic to them at all. But I believe SPACE was a reasonably popular choice for jump even in those dark ages.

[Binsou]

In the Smash games, you can use the up direction on the left stick to jump as well, so you could consider using the up arrow as well.  That's assuming you're using the arrow keys for movement, though.

I agree with the other people who are saying that allowing for rebinding is probably the best bet. 

You'll still need a default, obviously, and I think Space Bar is better than C for jumping.  The thumb is more independent from the pointer and middle finger than the pointer finger is from the middle and ring fingers so I think it'll feel more natural to pick up.  I also think that reducing the chances that someone hits the wrong button in a panic moment is good.

[ALourenco]

I would go for the Space key. An other alternative would be the up key, if the game uses the direction keys for movement.

I believe C is not a good option because it is really close to Z and X in most keyboards. This wouldn't make a difference with an experienced player, but in the beginning it might feel confusing and weird and keeping the new players is very important.

Still there is nothing like play testing. Get a bunch of testers to try both key layouts and get their opinion. You can also enable every key layout option and see witch keys the player goes for.

Good Luck!