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[goob256]

Has anybody else dealt with this? I released my first for-pay game in 2010. Since then I've made several more, but none of them were commercially or critically very successful (the one from 2010 happens to be the best selling one still.) I've broken even on 1 game and lost money on all the others, and reviews average around 60%~ (with a few storefronts getting higher than that.)

Most of my games have taken about 3-4 years to finish, and I worked a lot (almost everyday, usually all day long.) But recently I'm finding it harder to put in as much time on my new project and I think it might have something to do with the topic. I've loved making games since the 90s but even still it's hard to keep going nowadays.

The other factor is I'm doing everything myself now, so I have to do art and audio and all that which I'm not particularly great at. So I put in a massive effort on art and get back a turd and that feeds the lack of motivation I think.

So anybody have any advice? What should I do or think about to stay motivated after many less than stellar results?

[Lares Yamoir]

I'm not in this situation, so I can only guess: Maybe it would be a good idea to try some on-demand development(as in: you have a customer who wants a specific game)? That would certainly help with money concerns and the audience you have to adress this game to (your customer's users) might be marketable to for your own projects.
Another solution would be to use your games as a portfolio to get hired for an indie team project. Having other people to work with might help with motivation and you wouldn't have to worry about paying an artist or doing the art yourself. Of course this works only if there is a project out there that you want want to join.

[Schrompf]

After all those years maybe you should wrap it up and get a job. While I do understand that this is a huge emotional hurdle for you, as an bystander I always think: there is no natural right to be praised and earn money with one's heart project. Success will not come automatically if one is just passionate enough. Maybe it's just luck and your next project will go through the roof. But statistically it's far more probable that the next project will be a loss just like the others, and at some point you have to notice that, and act accordingly.

Get a part time job, go on in your spare time. And definitely do prototypes and get more people on board to judge you often and early.

Sorry.

[goob256]

Lares gives great suggestions based off my post. They don't work for me though. Or at least I can't see them working. I don't know if I really want to explain why...

As far as giving up, this is the only thing I know how to do that I can do. I have been on disability for a while now. I would have probably never sold a game otherwise as I was working up till a point I had to quit, even though I truly would have rather been making games (ironic?)

Money and "likes" aren't the real problem. Assume I'll never get either. What things can I do to stay motivated? Right now the biggest issue is the art. I enjoy programming a greatdeal more than art.

[Schrompf]

Well, if you don't have to earn a living by your games through all these years, then you're way more blessed than I ever dreamed. In this case, I'd put my latter suggestion up front: get in touch with other people. Find an artist, any contributor, people who accompany you throughout the development. This serves both to build up expectations to you and to improve your game early when it's still cheap to change major elements.

[PetSkull]

Well, if you don't have to earn a living by your games through all these years, then you're way more blessed than I ever dreamed. In this case, I'd put my latter suggestion up front: get in touch with other people. Find an artist, any contributor, people who accompany you throughout the development. This serves both to build up expectations to you and to improve your game early when it's still cheap to change major elements.

I was about to write exactly the same, but had to grab a quick lunch

[goob256]

If I knew someone reliable I would love to collab. It's difficult though. I've done it a few times before and most people don't take it really seriously. I understand most people have other jobs and stuff so I understand why but it makes it difficult, always waiting sometimes for months while others aren't doing anything. Anyway, I'm open to collabs if it's someone I get to know I can trust, right now I don't know anyone like that though.

[eyeliner]

Crystal Picnic: The game has charm, the trailer is a mess. The soundtrack to it is awfful and doesn't convey the spirit of the game.
I hope the game itself doesn't have that rocking guitar as background.

Monster RPG is in dire need of a makeover. Do a remake of it. Good exercise, and you would have already a base to expand upon.

Monster RPG 2, by looking at the trailer shows a few quirks: different resolutions for sprites/menus, different graphical styles for sprites, etc. Read the reviews, some of them are quite spot on.

Monster RPG 3 seems ok, though a bit too low resolution for me.


I'd say, improve your games, specially the first to get another view of your work. Most of it is done, after all.

[ViktorTheBoar]

Just team up with someone! So many artists could use a good programmer with experience.

[-Ross]

Have you tried an early-access-ish method? Not necessarily real Early Access, but having people try your game early on and iterating on it? That could solve both the low motivation and the poor game problems.

If you want better art, you either need to train yourself or find someone else. Yes, finding someone reliable to collaborate with will definitely take some work, but not as much as training yourself would.

If you put out a call for artists, make sure you market yourself well. If you want a reliable partner, you need to prove that you are reliable. Show all the games you have made, explain your situation, and interview the applicants thoroughly to try to find someone who's capable of plugging away at something for a long time.

Another option is to make games without graphics at all, or with ASCII only. Text adventure games and traditional roguelikes seem pretty close to what you are already doing.

[diegzumillo]

Want more advice from someone who is not in that position and doesn't really understand your problems? Well you got it!

I like to think I know a thing or two about games. I know about making them, playing them, criticizing them, but I'm not really a part of the industry. I do not live out of games and I'm certain when you make the move from casual to making a living out of it it's a completely different ball game.

Anyway, I noticed you charge very little for your games. There is one bit of information I keep at the back of my head because I never used it: how much you charge for a product influences how people perceive it. There are many reasons for this and it applies to everything. It draws a different crowd and a different scrutiny. For example, some critics don't even look at free to play of very cheap games. I mean, would you read articles and watch videos before making a $0.5 purchase? Then what incentive a critic has to look at these products? Price is extremely subjective, specially in art. There are very few parameters that are objective; Like, if the game looks very amateur with bad pixel art or looks like it uses stock 3d models, then people will expect a very low price. But I don't think your games look cheap. You seem to have put a lot of hard work into them.

There is also marketing side of things. I know nothing about marketing except it's a word that sounds relevant, so you should be familiar with it and see if you aren't overlooking something basic.

[Hardgamuh]

I'm not in this situation, so I can only guess: Maybe it would be a good idea to try some on-demand development(as in: you have a customer who wants a specific game)? That would certainly help with money concerns and the audience you have to adress this game to (your customer's users) might be marketable to for your own projects.
Another solution would be to use your games as a portfolio to get hired for an indie team project. Having other people to work with might help with motivation and you wouldn't have to worry about paying an artist or doing the art yourself. Of course this works only if there is a project out there that you want want to join.

I second this opinion, focusing on what's in demand and popular at the current time will definitely increase visibility and generally positive feedback.

[goob256]

Want more advice from someone who is not in that position and doesn't really understand your problems? Well you got it!

I think anybody in my position had already given up long ago, so I'll take what I can get!

There's a lot of advice here to consider and think about for sure. Mostly stuff to consider for future games and the part I'm having trouble with is getting the next game done. I don't think I have a perfect solution yet. TBH I'm not even sure I am right about the reasons for having this problem. Maybe it's bigger than poor sales/reviews?

[diegzumillo]

Here's more possibly useless advice then. Something like it has been mentioned already. Maybe finding a job that can take the pressure off of the development would be good. It's one thing to work on a project because you think it will be great for its own sake, you're excited to bring this thing from your mind into the world etc. Another completely different thing is to work on something because you need to pay the bills. If you're anything like me then the second motivation, despite having a much more serious effect on my life, is a lot less strong than the first motivation. With the added peace of mind you'll be able to take a step back and see if what you have is working and change things without fear of wasting time and money.

[woodsmoke]

Money and "likes" aren't the real problem.

What is "the real problem" then? The thread title suggests "likes" are important?

If money isn't a problem make games that you are proud of for yourself. That should keep you motivated. Keep practicing art and keep it simple at first (maybe try low resolution / very few colours / only silhouettes)

The games market is oversaturated with games and making a hit is like trying to win the lottery jackpot. We are all eating a shit sandwich out here when it comes to making a popular game.

[NowSayPillow]

I think the only thing you can do in today's market is build something that you can be absolutely proud of. If you can take a step back, take your ego out of the picture and really look at your game and think "yes, if someone else built this game and I saw it for sale I'd buy it without a second thought" I think you're doing the best you can do. Do this and motivation will find you, with or without sales.

[ProgramGamer]

Well, considering that:

A: You don't need to profit off your games (though I can imagine that it would still be nice)

B: Your cited problem is loss of motivation, and not necessarily a lack of success

What I might do in a situation like this is create a forum or a community oriented website and foster a little niche of players who are fans of your games. Feedback from people is most often motivating, so building a small community around the stuff that you do might help you feel a bit more fulfilled making your games. I mean heck, that's the whole idea behind this whole website/forum lol, so even making a Devlog for your current game would probably help!

(Totally not shilling the idea of making a Devlog here tho )

As far as better art goes though, I don't really have anything to propose unfortunately. The only clear-conscience way of getting better stuff is either to improve your own skills or commission someone else, which costs money, and spending money is probably hard to justify in your current situation.

Hope you find the motivation to work on games again though, it would be a shame if you stopped doing what you love.

[goob256]

Thanks for the replies.

I have to remember sometimes that the reason I don't have a normal job, as mentioned, is it's too much for me. So when I can't work full time hours on my games that's normal.

Besides that, there are always times during development (I've finished several games) when this happens, especially when just starting out which I am now.

The biggest thing that has helped recently is talking to more people - I have been super isolated the past 12 years so talking to people (like in this thread) has been helping a lot and I hope to do it more.

[Unknown33]

Have you ever heard the old expression "if you love something let it go"?

What has worked for me is when I feel like I am through with something, I find the courage to walk away and do something else.

If you find yourself coming back to something, you'll usually gain new perspective and an appreciation for it greater than what you had before. Either that, or you'll find an even greater calling in another activity.

It's a win/win.

Maybe your lack of motivation is a rational response and a break is exactly what your brain needs at this moment.

[Reflox]

We have more choices than we give ourselves credit in life. That said:

Whenever i do something that receives more critic than expected, i accept it as a feedback which is free, and i can use it to improve the game, the story, an idea. Whatever you are working with in life.

First of all, it is a free feedback. You should only listen to constructive criticism, that which offers you some solution and the way to make it better. If someone says "you suck" well they suck too. That's based on nothing you can work with. As long as you are getting suggestions on improvement, it's a free score for you.

Basically everything a person does in life is two-fold. So as the feedback. As long as you are getting long term growth, short term pits should not worry you. Short term depends on good and bad, while long term depends totally on your passion and not giving up. All the living organisms grow up through problems, if we did not have those, we would be stale and entropy in the universe would just eat us as useless organisms.

That idea helps through anything for me